Electric cars

[guru]

Originally Posted by SCP440

Yes I agree but with an ICE powered vehicle a lack of fuel is remedied in a couple of mins.


The mind set will need to change a lot, the wife offen leaves her ICE car with enough fuel for a couple of trips to the Supermarket or a trip to work. When she goes further afield I am often sent to fill it before she leaves. Planning ahead for longer journeys will need to be a thing, maybe we will have to leave these vehicles fully charged at all times just incase?

It does take a change in mindset however a year and a half in I can tell you it's not a difficult one. We tend to always plug the car in which means it's fully charged and ready to go. It's a minor inconvenience which is more then offset by never having to drive to a petrol station and exchange vast amounts of cash for fuel.

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by WillyHeckaslike

I think that ev's could become obsolete relatively quickly and replaced by diesel electric technology. A small diesel generator for on the go charging as required of a much smaller battery for electromotive traction could I think prove to be more practical, affordable and sustainable. Boris I think has had his pants pulled down on this issue by maybe his father, Stanley, and his wife together with the many activists who are vociferous on ideas but not so good on substance. There will I think be some pushback over ev's if not a backlash when reality begins to hit as the clock ticks down towards what seems to be overly short deadlines towards zero emissions. Personally I'm not sure that zero will prove to be affordable and practical for many.

It's diesel emmisons that is causing the most health issues. A small petrol engine would be better.

Kev

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by Lancpudn

The new VED 'road pricing' plan is going to be made up of three different categories, Weight of vehicle, emissions & time of use to curtail congestion, Does this mean they're going to retrofit all cars with GPS black box to know when & where you've driven to bill you annually? “It should be based on a simple distance-driven model that considers vehicle weight, emissions and use case with discounts given to shared mobility solutions – such as car clubs, rental cars, buses and taxis – to incentive more sustainable travel choices.”
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/lat...o-drive-change

The latest from the COP 26 is they want all ICE cars to travel 30% less/annum to reduce emissions https://airqualitynews.com/2021/12/0...ions-on-track/ & a government transport minister wants an end to car ownership culture & join a car sharing club. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/env...-car-ownership

Why not just a flat rate like there used to be? Much simpler to administer but hey, why not employ, at the tax-payers expense, a load of incompetents (like the Special Advisors, to any government) to introduce a 'never will work' system.

Kev

[Lancpudn]

Originally Posted by SCP440

If that is the case why not push another option like Hydrogen then? They have already got it to work in cars, it will work in aircraft, homes and even ticks the green box. No crazy lengths of time charging up or putting a demand on the grid that it wont handle. Apart from the money that already has been waisted on the EV option it has to be the logical step forward especially as they are already predicting a problem.


Another electric problem is forgeteting to charge them up, two doors down from me his daughter has something French and electric, she forgets to charge it when she gets home so has to borrow her Mothers ICE car so she is not late for work, it has got to the stage her father is putting it on charge for her because she keeps fogetting. At least with a liquid fuel it only needs a Jerry can to get you out of that problem not an hour or more sitting.

There's just not enough "Green Hydrogen" being manufactured from renewable energy for mass adoption & "Blue Hydrogen" will carry the carbon pricing tax same as petrol & diesel etc.
Carbon pricing & the EMT (emissions trading system) is going to kick in between eighteen months to twenty four months time.
BP are planning a green hydrogen site to go with their green hydrogen site on Teeside. https://www.edie.net/news/8/BP-plans...n-plant-in-UK/


Even with carbon capture & storage systems installed on the production of blue hydrogen it will be much more expensive than green hydrogen. Freight will get the first bite of hydrogen technology as they are the hardest form of transport to reduce emissions from what I've read.

[WillyHeckaslike]

Originally Posted by torque2me

It's diesel emmisons that is causing the most health issues. A small petrol engine would be better.Kev

True but in my experience commercial vehicles and buses have always been the most noticeable inner-city belchers. I'm talking about a much smaller diesel for on the go battery charging as required with plug-in mains charging still being the main and preferred option. It will be tiny in comparison to a main diesel engine of today's vehicles and it will be used by most for a fraction of the time. Being so small any emissions will be easier to deal with, smaller cats and therefore less use of precious metals. In fact smaller everything re emission controls and with BHP removed from the equation the need for some to cheat by removing safeguards will be defunct. That coupled with what should result in smaller cost for smaller items should also incentivize best practice when any main emission control parts need replacing. The technology has been around in other applications for a long time and is well understood. Used on trains and many subs the world over and I believe that our navy's newer ships are now using it with electric motors driving the props.

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by WillyHeckaslike

True but in my experience commercial vehicles and buses have always been the most noticeable inner-city belchers. I'm talking about a much smaller diesel for on the go battery charging as required with plug-in mains charging still being the main and preferred option. It will be tiny in comparison to a main diesel engine of today's vehicles and it will be used by most for a fraction of the time. Being so small any emissions will be easier to deal with, smaller cats and therefore less use of precious metals. In fact smaller everything re emission controls and with BHP removed from the equation the need for some to cheat by removing safeguards will be defunct. That coupled with what should result in smaller cost for smaller items should also incentivize best practice when any main emission control parts need replacing. The technology has been around in other applications for a long time and is well understood. Used on trains and many subs the world over and I believe that our navy's newer ships are now using it with electric motors driving the props.

Yeah, but the manufacturers have seen sense and most hybrids are petrol!

The electric motors in the Navy's newest keep breaking down but it keeps Rolls Royce and their partner in profits...

Kev

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Lancpudn

Yes agreed, I've read a few times in reports from the UK government & the European parliament saying this disruption is going to be more of a disruption than the first industrial revolution was
..........

I think you have hit the nail on the head. We have become accustomed to cheap natural resources, leading to excessive consumption, leading to people thinking only about how they are going to maintain their lifestyle of excesses. The public is going to have to rethink their ways of living and lifestyles. Alternatively, accept increasing health problems in the young, chronic illnesses affecting the old, lowering of the average human lifespan and so on.

Originally Posted by KWIL

Compared with when I was still at work, my milage has reduced by 85%, why should I be penalised?............

Why should the newborn and future generations suffer because of your lifestyle? The simple answer should be that if the new norms don't support your ways of living, then adjust your ways of living.

[SCP440]

Originally Posted by Lancpudn

There's just not enough "Green Hydrogen" being manufactured from renewable energy for mass adoption

Yes I had read that but if there is a demand they can set up the infastructre to make it. Off shore wind farms and enough demand would see the price drop.


On the same note if you had to start from a clean sheet extracting oil from the ground after drilling a well in the North Sea, transporting it to the oil refineries and extracting it from crude oil and then transporting it to the petrol stations would cost a fortune.



Oil is only cheap because of the volume that is used, if Hydrogen was on the same scale I am sure once the set up cost had been absorbed it could be a lot cheaper.



One of the reason EV's look a good option is because we already have Electricity.



Personally I think we need both EV's and a liquid fuel option, some will find an EV does everything they need it to do but others will need something with a longer range and quick refilling. Coomercial vehicles as has been said will work well with Hydriogen but I am sure others will take this option.

[Lancpudn]

Originally Posted by SCP440

Yes I had read that but if there is a demand they can set up the infastructre to make it. Off shore wind farms and enough demand would see the price drop.


On the same note if you had to start from a clean sheet extracting oil from the ground after drilling a well in the North Sea, transporting it to the oil refineries and extracting it from crude oil and then transporting it to the petrol stations would cost a fortune.



Oil is only cheap because of the volume that is used, if Hydrogen was on the same scale I am sure once the set up cost had been absorbed it could be a lot cheaper.



One of the reason EV's look a good option is because we already have Electricity.



Personally I think we need both EV's and a liquid fuel option, some will find an EV does everything they need it to do but others will need something with a longer range and quick refilling. Coomercial vehicles as has been said will work well with Hydriogen but I am sure others will take this option.

Yes battery/charging technology is changing so fast now, The Hyundai Ioniq 5 can charge at 800V on those fast 350v chargers which puts 60 miles of range into the traction pack in 5 minutes. The huge Chinese BYD company have just launched a 1200 volt power chip system presumably for their electric bus & trucks to fast charge.

[Mike Noc]

60 miles of range in 5 minutes? Well that's an improvement.

My old diesel 75 can fill up in well less than 5 minutes and is then good for another 600 odd miles.

That's progress for you









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