Putin, Russia and the West

[KLM]

Well who's this.



Kev.

[MSS]

You can't fool us so easily.

Someone's been going through the family album - your mother.

[Borg Warner]

Oh dear:

The Daily Telegraph reports that France and Germany sold arms to Russia worth £230 million, citing an EU analysis. According to the paper, the two countries sent equipment, including bombs, rockets, missiles and guns to Russia despite an EU-wide embargo which was introduced in the wake of Moscow's 2014 annexation of Crimea. The paper adds that Paris and Berlin have resisted an EU ban on buying gas from Russia.

Meanwhile:

"Boris: I'll send in our tanks" is the headline dominating the front of the Daily Mail. The paper reports that the British Army is expected to send tanks to Poland so Warsaw can give some of theirs to Ukraine. The paper says it signals a major escalation of the UK's support for Kyiv, as Boris Johnson has said there is a realistic possibility Moscow could win the war. In other news, the paper joins several others to carry a large photo of Prince Louis playing on a beach in Norfolk to mark his fourth birthday.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Borg Warner

Oh dear:

The Daily Telegraph reports that France and Germany sold arms to Russia worth £230 million, citing an EU analysis. According to the paper, the two countries sent equipment, including bombs, rockets, missiles and guns to Russia despite an EU-wide embargo which was introduced in the wake of Moscow's 2014 annexation of Crimea. The paper adds that Paris and Berlin have resisted an EU ban on buying gas from Russia.

Meanwhile:

"Boris: I'll send in our tanks" is the headline dominating the front of the Daily Mail. The paper reports that the British Army is expected to send tanks to Poland so Warsaw can give some of theirs to Ukraine. The paper says it signals a major escalation of the UK's support for Kyiv, as Boris Johnson has said there is a realistic possibility Moscow could win the war. In other news, the paper joins several others to carry a large photo of Prince Louis playing on a beach in Norfolk to mark his fourth birthday.

Singling out France and Germany is being very selective - the analysis is that 10 EU countries exported 'defence equipment' to Russia. This includes Finland and Czechoslovakia. Also, the categories are very broad.

France and Germany would be expected to resist a ban on Russian gas imports. Their industries depend on the imports and Germany in particular could really suffer financially as a result of such a ban. The US and UK do not depend on Russian gas so it is easy to be hawkish in terms of banning such imports.

I suspect there will be German politicians quietly questioning whether it is in fact in the US's and UK's interest to push for sanctions that will financially weaken the EU's industrial/financial power houses.

This is a very complex situation, with potentially long-term and strategic impacts, that cannot be explained with simple headlines.

[Borg Warner]

Seems the German public are not happy:

https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/22/...of-ukraine-war

[SD1too]

For those who found Putin, Russia and the West an interesting documentary, BBC Two's offering on Monday 25th April is the story of Navalny, the opposition leader in Russia who was poisoned and subjected to repeated sentences in prison.

Simon

[MarkS]

"Germany in particular could really suffer financially as a result of such a ban...."

I understand Ukraine has suffered $60B in damages, so far, according to the World Bank, not including all the deaths, rapes, and amputations, that are taking place today in Europe.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by MarkS

"Germany in particular could really suffer financially as a result of such a ban...."

I understand Ukraine has suffered $60B in damages, so far, according to the World Bank, not including all the deaths, rapes, and amputations, that are taking place today in Europe.

I don't understand your point - each country's leadership will almost always consider the impact on their coutry first.

My comment was not intended to justify Germany's decisions, but to explain the difficulty facing their leadership.

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by SD1too

For those who found Putin, Russia and the West an interesting documentary, BBC Two's offering on Monday 25th April is the story of Navalny, the opposition leader in Russia who was poisoned and subjected to repeated sentences in prison.

Simon

Didn't that look at the Mededev/Obama period in time? Yes, VP did have some coverage as everyone at the time thought the President's chair was only being kept warm until VP could reclaim it. The programme showed that it wasn't quite like that and was quite interesting.

Kev

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by MarkS

"Germany in particular could really suffer financially as a result of such a ban...."

I understand Ukraine has suffered $60B in damages, so far, according to the World Bank, not including all the deaths, rapes, and amputations, that are taking place today in Europe.

And forced interrogation & forced repatriation to Russian provinces, far from Ukraine, and documentation confiscated.

And if you have phone contacts and pictures of journalists, government contacts, or military contacts, you're taken downstairs for 'enhanced' interrogation, (aka tortured), and probable disappearance into an unmarked mass grave or mobile crematorium.

As in Crimea, the Donbass, Georgia, Chechnya, Syria, Libya, Nemtsov bridge, MH17, FR4978, Salisbury, Millennium Hotel London, et al, in the last decade.

And all this is taking place, today, in Europe...
"Never again" ???

Some countries have obviously forgotten their history.