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Old 30th March 2022, 09:30   #1
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Default Putin, Russia and the West

For those interested, the above four programme documentary from 2012 starts on BBC4 tonight.

I've seen the series previously and it is excellent. It also leaves one wondering how and why relations have deteriorated so much.

The full series of four programmes is still also available on iPlayer.
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Old 30th March 2022, 10:42   #2
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In my mind Putin seems to have been around forever,and in some ways I had a slight admiration for him as a strong and capable leader.Untill now that is,never in my wildest imagination did I believe he was capable of the evil and brutality that he has shown over the last month.I'm not the most well informed on world affairs,and perhaps a little naive,but he and his regime have truely shocked me with their actions.
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Old 30th March 2022, 14:34   #3
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In my mind Putin seems to have been around forever,and in some ways I had a slight admiration for him as a strong and capable leader.Untill now that is,never in my wildest imagination did I believe he was capable of the evil and brutality that he has shown over the last month.I'm not the most well informed on world affairs,and perhaps a little naive,but he and his regime have truely shocked me with their actions.
He's ex-KGB (though one NEVER leave the family) and thus a virtual certainty he would be brutal. As for strong leadership, I would say it was "strong" piles of money.

Kev
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Old 30th March 2022, 15:07   #4
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He's ex-KGB (though one NEVER leave the family) and thus a virtual certainty he would be brutal. As for strong leadership, I would say it was "strong" piles of money.

Kev

Yes I'm aware he is ex KGB but in his many years of leadership he has behaved in a 'fairly' statesman like way on the world stage up untill now.His ruthlessness and lack of caution at esculating things have shocked me and I suspect many others.
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Old 30th March 2022, 17:46   #5
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Putin has exceeded his usefulness in his position and this is a last ditch attempt to prolong his tenure. There are other factions at home who are decidedly not his friends but are eagerly awaiting opportunities. He knows this and that's why he is breaking all the 'rules' and raising the fear factor. He's a very clever man. His replacement, if it comes, might be even worse.
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Old 30th March 2022, 18:28   #6
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Yes I'm aware he is ex KGB but in his many years of leadership he has behaved in a 'fairly' statesman like way on the world stage up untill now.His ruthlessness and lack of caution at esculating things have shocked me and I suspect many others.
Well, is that strong in the sense that you have murdered rivals, ex-employees and destroyed the lives of others in different ways. Or is strong being comfortable with vote rigging and denying any type of non-violent demonstrations against HIS regime?

From his being Mayor in St. Petersburg he actually could be seen in his true colours but his actions were smaller in scale until he had his cronies in place and his cronies had him on the path to total power.

I'm not shocked, or surprised, as he is a doppleganger to Stalin (and a few other notable Russian/Soviet persons). Lenin was a ruthless man as well but history does not underline that trait.

Kev

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Old 30th March 2022, 18:44   #7
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Well, is that strong in the sense that you have murdered rivals, ex-employees and destroyed the lives of others in different ways. Or is strong being comfortable with vote rigging and denying any type of non-violent demonstrations against HIS regime?

From his being Mayor in St. Petersburg he actually could be seen in his true colours but his actions were smaller in scale until he had his cronies in place and his cronies had him on the path to total power.

I'm not shocked, or surprised, as he is a doppleganger to Stalin (and a few other notable Russian/Soviet persons). Lenin was a ruthless man as well but history does not underline that trait.

Kev

The west of course would never resort to any of those things.Would they?Dr David Kelly may have a diffeent view.One thing I am sure of though is we will never be guilty of genocide,something I thought was beyond Putin too.I was wrong.
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Old 30th March 2022, 19:20   #8
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The west of course would never resort to any of those things.Would they?Dr David Kelly may have a diffeent view.One thing I am sure of though is we will never be guilty of genocide,something I thought was beyond Putin too.I was wrong.
No Govt. organ(s) murdered him but "hanging him out to dry" would be similar to Putin trashing a reputation.

Kev
p.s.
Most of the genocide by Russia
was undertaken by Stalin
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Old 30th March 2022, 19:23   #9
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As this is a well mannered thread with no malice by contributors to each other.
Perhaps I may be allowed to re-publish my Putin "cartoon" again on this forum without it being censored.
After all, censorship is the sort of thing the "Gremlin in the Kremlin" would aprove of.
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Old 30th March 2022, 19:56   #10
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Russia was in free fall under Putin's predecessors - there was no rule of law. So it could be argued that he is the man who saved Russia from implosion and disintegration. That would mean he could be the best thing to have happened to Russia and the Russian people as he has ensured stability.

If one accepts the above, the question then arises as to how to achieve a peaceful coexistence with Russia.

It's worth recognising that not all cultures and countries need or could survive western democracy. Iraq, Libya, Syria and Afganistan are good examples. Some countries need dictatorship for stability.


P.S. please do not confuse the above with me being a Putin fan or admirer. I am more a Angela Merkel or Bill Clinton admirer.
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