Replacing the cat

Greccehus1 · 10th April 2019, 11:16

Hi,

in other posts I have already mentioned the troubles I had with my 1.8 T Connie (burned exhaust valve) and now it seems the cat has given up on me. I assume it is the result of driving it with the damaged valve and unburned fuel in the exhaust (correct me if I'm wrong). There is a rattling sound somewhere below especially at certain revs; at other revs I don't hear it at all. Also, the check engine light comes on again and TOAF tells me it has to do with the cat or o2-sensor (P0420 and P0133 I believe the codes were).
I have found a spare cat but before I order it, my question is if it is easy to replace it yourself. I once replaced the exhaust on a Mercedes W123 series 280e and later the cat and exhaust on a Renault Espace series III. Wasn't easy (because of rusty bolts and lying on my back under the car), but I managed. So if anyone has any experience with this, please feel free to give me some tips.

Thanks,
Jasper

slovcan · 10th April 2019, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greccehus1

Hi,

in other posts I have already mentioned the troubles I had with my 1.8 T Connie (burned exhaust valve) and now it seems the cat has given up on me. I assume it is the result of driving it with the damaged valve and unburned fuel in the exhaust (correct me if I'm wrong). There is a rattling sound somewhere below especially at certain revs; at other revs I don't hear it at all. Also, the check engine light comes on again and TOAF tells me it has to do with the cat or o2-sensor (P0420 and P0133 I believe the codes were).
I have found a spare cat but before I order it, my question is if it is easy to replace it yourself. I once replaced the exhaust on a Mercedes W123 series 280e and later the cat and exhaust on a Renault Espace series III. Wasn't easy (because of rusty bolts and lying on my back under the car), but I managed. So if anyone has any experience with this, please feel free to give me some tips.

Thanks,
Jasper

Now we're getting somewhere. Code PO133 is the front O2 sensor. While you apparently had a burned exhaust valve (that's a mystery to me - very rare), how long you drove it like that with no compression on that cylinder would be important to whether or not the cat is really that far gone. O2 sensors can generally start getting lazy by 100,000 kms or so. Start with changing that, not the cat.

Cheers,
Glenn

Greccehus1 · 10th April 2019, 17:21

Thanks very much Glenn, indeed now we're getting somewhere. So the rattling sound doesn't necessarily mean the cat has lost it? And would you recommend changing first one and then (maybe) the other?
One more question: for some reason the engine now seems reluctant to start; it takes some time to pick up revs and this afternoon I needed to floor the pedal to get her to run. Is there a connection between the sensor and this bit of frustration too? Or do I need to look for something else?

slovcan · 10th April 2019, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greccehus1

Thanks very much Glenn, indeed now we're getting somewhere. So the rattling sound doesn't necessarily mean the cat has lost it? And would you recommend changing first one and then (maybe) the other?
One more question: for some reason the engine now seems reluctant to start; it takes some time to pick up revs and this afternoon I needed to floor the pedal to get her to run. Is there a connection between the sensor and this bit of frustration too? Or do I need to look for something else?

The rattling usually ends up being a loose heat shield where it has corroded loose at one of the mounting screws. I don't know the mileage of your car, but if it's over 100,000 kms, then changing the O2 sensor is justified even if it turns out to be the cat.

Hard to start COULD be the O2 sensor or a camshaft sensor on the way out, BUT there is still the chance that your cat COULD be partially plugged and starting to fail and rattle internally.

I'm hoping to see others offer opinions, too.

The people who diagnoses the burned valve and did the cylinder head work - are they experience with the Rover K-series engines?

Cheers,
Glenn

Greccehus1 · 10th April 2019, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by slovcan

The people who diagnoses the burned valve and did the cylinder head work - are they experience with the Rover K-series engines?

Yes, I would think so, since they are a Rover specialist, with Rover-signs and the lot. I was thinking of giving them a call, but since I already spent quite a large sum on the valve-experience, I wasn't too keen on returning and having the rest of my monthly pay-check disappear.
The returning check engine and the starting problems don't make me happy either.

Greccehus1 · 12th April 2019, 09:28

So I called the garage and told them about the problem. They forgot to put all three bolts back in the plastic cover (was fastened with just one - which holds, but there are supposed to be three of them), so that makes me wonder what else they forgot to fasten. Starting is getting worse and my enthusiasm for the car is waning.
I'm returning the Rover next Monday and told them I don't intend to spend a lot of money anymore.

trikey · 12th April 2019, 12:47

Check the bracket that holds the exhaust pipe to the sump, this is known for rattling.

Greccehus1 · 13th April 2019, 18:58

Thanks Trikey,
I'll check that one. Actually the starting issue is the thing that frustrates me most. If anyone could give me some tips on that one... Especially since it didn't occur before I had the major repair, and apart from that it make my car look like a wreck spitting out those clouds while coughing and being reluctant to go.

T-Cut · 14th April 2019, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greccehus1

- - - now it seems the cat has given up on me. - - - -There is a rattling sound somewhere below especially at certain revs - - - Also, the check engine light comes on again and TOAF tells me it has to do with the cat or o2-sensor

I had a rattling sound, check engine light and a similar O2 sensor code. This was the cause:

That's the catalytic converter cut in half with what's left of the top shelf ceramic element used by MGR.
So, there's a load of ceramic/platimum/palladium dust scattered around the country.

TC

Greccehus1 · 14th April 2019, 17:53

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid might be my problem as well (the car's that is). I just checked my battery again (I suspected the battery might have something to do with the starting problems as well, so I recharged it last Friday) and after almost two days (during which I didn't use my car) it has dropped approx 1.8 volts. Now the starting issues remained after having fully recharged the battery, so that can't be the cause, but somehow the battery gets drained slowly. Does this ring any bells? Could this be linked to the trouble?
Mind you, once it runs, it runs properly. It's just but very significantly the trouble the car seems to have picking up the right number of revs. I was also thinking of the injectors, but then it wouldn't just be starting up, would it?

10th April 2019, 11:16	#1
Greccehus1 Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Ophemert Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Replacing the cat Hi, in other posts I have already mentioned the troubles I had with my 1.8 T Connie (burned exhaust valve) and now it seems the cat has given up on me. I assume it is the result of driving it with the damaged valve and unburned fuel in the exhaust (correct me if I'm wrong). There is a rattling sound somewhere below especially at certain revs; at other revs I don't hear it at all. Also, the check engine light comes on again and TOAF tells me it has to do with the cat or o2-sensor (P0420 and P0133 I believe the codes were). I have found a spare cat but before I order it, my question is if it is easy to replace it yourself. I once replaced the exhaust on a Mercedes W123 series 280e and later the cat and exhaust on a Renault Espace series III. Wasn't easy (because of rusty bolts and lying on my back under the car), but I managed. So if anyone has any experience with this, please feel free to give me some tips. Thanks, Jasper

12th April 2019, 12:47	#7
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,766 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	Check the bracket that holds the exhaust pipe to the sump, this is known for rattling. __________________ Lest we forget..

10th April 2019, 17:21	#3
Greccehus1 Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Ophemert Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks very much Glenn, indeed now we're getting somewhere. So the rattling sound doesn't necessarily mean the cat has lost it? And would you recommend changing first one and then (maybe) the other? One more question: for some reason the engine now seems reluctant to start; it takes some time to pick up revs and this afternoon I needed to floor the pedal to get her to run. Is there a connection between the sensor and this bit of frustration too? Or do I need to look for something else?

12th April 2019, 09:28	#6
Greccehus1 Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Ophemert Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	So I called the garage and told them about the problem. They forgot to put all three bolts back in the plastic cover (was fastened with just one - which holds, but there are supposed to be three of them), so that makes me wonder what else they forgot to fasten. Starting is getting worse and my enthusiasm for the car is waning. I'm returning the Rover next Monday and told them I don't intend to spend a lot of money anymore.

13th April 2019, 18:58	#8
Greccehus1 Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Ophemert Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks Trikey, I'll check that one. Actually the starting issue is the thing that frustrates me most. If anyone could give me some tips on that one... Especially since it didn't occur before I had the major repair, and apart from that it make my car look like a wreck spitting out those clouds while coughing and being reluctant to go.

14th April 2019, 17:53	#10
Greccehus1 Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Ophemert Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Yeah, that's what I'm afraid might be my problem as well (the car's that is). I just checked my battery again (I suspected the battery might have something to do with the starting problems as well, so I recharged it last Friday) and after almost two days (during which I didn't use my car) it has dropped approx 1.8 volts. Now the starting issues remained after having fully recharged the battery, so that can't be the cause, but somehow the battery gets drained slowly. Does this ring any bells? Could this be linked to the trouble? Mind you, once it runs, it runs properly. It's just but very significantly the trouble the car seems to have picking up the right number of revs. I was also thinking of the injectors, but then it wouldn't just be starting up, would it?