A difficult situation.

[RobSun]

I was wondering what others would do in this situation. We have a 90 year old neighbour living next door but one. He's always been active and positive going away on holidays for around a week every month of the year. Since the lockdown he's gone down hill dramatically. The next door neighbour and myself have been checking on him everyday to make sure he's ok etc.

Last Sunday he called an ambulance because he thought he had caught the virus. The first we knew was when it arrived, so concerned we came out. He is profoundly deaf and the ambulance staff could not communicate well with him so they asked his immediate neighbour to go inside the house to get an idea of his circumstances and help with the communications. It was quickly decided he did not have Covid 19 but was panicking and severely lonely. They asked if he had family who could make allowed welfare visits. He has, a son with a house in Harrogate and Spain. He's stuck out there, a daughter fairly local and a grandson a bit closer. The neighbour was asked to contact them, she did. The daughter said she was not going to come over nor would she let her husband come, they were isolating and had had a falling out with him, so go away. She contacted his grandson who said I'm isolating I'm not going to break the rules. The ambulance crew told him that because it was a welfare visit so long as he stays outside and obeys the rules he's allowed to come over. He agreed to come the next day, he didn't.

After the ambulance had gone the old gent said to me, I'm going to get my head down and get some sleep, hopefully I will not wake up. Next morning we both checked on him and he said to my neighbour that he wanted to go back to sleep forever. After his grandson didn't turn up we were both really concerned for him and we talked about what we could do. She wanted to say what she thought to the daughter and grandson, I suggested she shouldn't, and we agreed to keep checking on him and encouraging him to come out into the garden for shouting chats over the fence (because of his hearing) keeping a distance and suggesting he went for short walks along the road, he is very fit and able.

On the Tuesday he came out into the garden after Jenny asked him. After chatting about the war in London as a child and his time in Australia he then again said he wanted to die and be with his late wife and his girlfriend who died last September. Sitting in our garden we could join in with his conversation and he told us of when his wife died in her last conversation she told him to get another sweetheart. That broke my son up, he had to go inside. He then asked Jenny if she would take him for a walk, he did not want to go on his own so she agreed .The next day she took him up the street trying to keep 2 metres away but it proved impossible, he couldn't understand nor hear as he wanted to chat. In all of this he has been talking about his grandson, looking forward to him coming and making excuses for him saying he will be busy at the football club he works for with players contracts etc and praising him.

Upset by his families abandoning him Jenny went against my suggestion and told his daughter and grandson she was disgusted with them and what she had been doing. On Thursday she had a visit from the long arm of the law. She was told if she contacts the grandson again she may be charged with harassment for sending more than two unwanted messages. Told off for taking him for a walk and told not to do it again, told off for sitting in our own gardens drinking tea and chatting. She put him right on that one saying I'm in my garden, she's in hers and the old gents in his so keeping away from each other. Telling her off for going into the house when asked by the ambulance driver, again she told him it was on his request to enable them to care for him, so he let her off that one. The officer was very sympathetic to what Jenny was trying to do, keep this man alive, get him through this time with a healthy mind but he kept saying to her its the law. Do what your told not what he needs.

On Good Friday he asked her to take him for another walk. She told him they couldn't go and he struggled to understand. Eventually she told him the police had been round and she had got into trouble for it. Why? he asked how did they know, someone grassed us up she said. He was very upset and hurt, wanted to know who it was. Jenny said she didn't know, could not tell him it was his precious grandson for what it may do to his mental health.

Yesterday we hadn't seen him for 24 hours after, he would not answer the door. We were getting worried and decided that if we do not get an answer today we will call the police to do a welfare check and put it back in their hands. Happily late yesterday we saw movement in his kitchen so Jenny's husband knocked on the door. He answered and his voice has always been a powerful shout because of his hearing. Yesterday his voice was so feeble and weak sounding. Hot food is being delivered now every day from the village Mechanics Institute. He says all food tastes vile and off and he will not eat the food being delivered to him and if they cannot raise him they leave it on the door step. Again today so far we have seen nothing of him and we are getting worried.

I think we need to contact someone about him but who? On Tuesday we are going to try Age UK and see what they can suggest. How many other isolated people are going through this, surely for their needs some common sense relaxation of the rules should be applied.

[trikey]

I’m on sense should always apply, this gentleman’s welfare should be paramount.

Well done for what you guys have been doing, I bet the family will soon be there if something happens to him.

[RPWC]

Originally Posted by trikey

I’m on sense should always apply, this gentleman’s welfare should be paramount.

Well done for what you guys have been doing, I bet the family will soon be there if something happens to him.

Yeah to see what they can get!!!
Experienced that myself in recent months

[Brunty]

Been going through similar with my parents, had to put mum in a nursing home last Thursday after having ambulance out 3 times in last 7 weeks, then she fell in the kitchen and fractured a bone in her spine, in agony. mum has been "losing it" since 2016 when she had a stroke, dad 86 has been caring for her until he had a stroke in December. My wife has now spent 7 weeks living at their house looking after them, I have been here weekends and solidly for the last 3 weeks. Problem is my sisters live in London Dubai Australia and cannot really help. Although we have had carers in to assist it is quite obvious that neither can manage on their own, they need full time care, Dad spoke to the nursing home and asked if he could live there with Mum, so next available bed is Dad's, will carry on for now then got a 6 bed house to clear and sell to fund future care. I feel really sorry for those elderly people who do not have a family member to support and help them. Please look out for your neighbours, one day it could be you.

[macafee2]

Playing devils advocate.
You all see an old frail man, but what do you know of the situation and where do you get your information from, the grandson, the daughter?

Trikey and RPWC, I wont go into details and if you do please keep them to yourselves (that is not meant to be rude) but if a certain elderly frail person I know was in trouble I'd walk on past. Someone may be old and frail but also as nasty as sin.

Gong back to the OP, assuming the old man is not as nasty as sin what you are doing is very kind and it does not reflect well on the family if they wont help. The story is very sad. Could you cook a meal and leave it on the door step? Do keep trying to talk to the old man, make him feel valued. How about social services? I think you also have to decide how far you are willing to go to help this old man. Will the police know if you are going to see him?

macafee2

[RPWC]

Originally Posted by macafee2

Playing devils advocate.
You all see an old frail man, but what do you know of the situation and where do you get your information from, the grandson, the daughter?

Trikey and RPWC, I wont go into details and if you do please keep them to yourselves (that is not meant to be rude) but if a certain elderly frail person I know was in trouble I'd walk on past. Someone may be old and frail but also as nasty as sin.

Gong back to the OP, assuming the old man is not as nasty as sin what you are doing is very kind.

macafee2

I get what you're saying Ian but if the old man was a grumpy nasty piece of work, surely it would have shown up with the o p's conversations with him.?

[clf]

Originally Posted by RobSun

I was wondering what others would do in this situation. We have a 90 year old neighbour living next door but one. He's always been active and positive going away on holidays for around a week every month of the year. Since the lockdown he's gone down hill dramatically. The next door neighbour and myself have been checking on him everyday to make sure he's ok etc.

Last Sunday he called an ambulance because he thought he had caught the virus. The first we knew was when it arrived, so concerned we came out. He is profoundly deaf and the ambulance staff could not communicate well with him so they asked his immediate neighbour to go inside the house to get an idea of his circumstances and help with the communications. It was quickly decided he did not have Covid 19 but was panicking and severely lonely. They asked if he had family who could make allowed welfare visits. He has, a son with a house in Harrogate and Spain. He's stuck out there, a daughter fairly local and a grandson a bit closer. The neighbour was asked to contact them, she did. The daughter said she was not going to come over nor would she let her husband come, they were isolating and had had a falling out with him, so go away. She contacted his grandson who said I'm isolating I'm not going to break the rules. The ambulance crew told him that because it was a welfare visit so long as he stays outside and obeys the rules he's allowed to come over. He agreed to come the next day, he didn't.

After the ambulance had gone the old gent said to me, I'm going to get my head down and get some sleep, hopefully I will not wake up. Next morning we both checked on him and he said to my neighbour that he wanted to go back to sleep forever. After his grandson didn't turn up we were both really concerned for him and we talked about what we could do. She wanted to say what she thought to the daughter and grandson, I suggested she shouldn't, and we agreed to keep checking on him and encouraging him to come out into the garden for shouting chats over the fence (because of his hearing) keeping a distance and suggesting he went for short walks along the road, he is very fit and able.

On the Tuesday he came out into the garden after Jenny asked him. After chatting about the war in London as a child and his time in Australia he then again said he wanted to die and be with his late wife and his girlfriend who died last September. Sitting in our garden we could join in with his conversation and he told us of when his wife died in her last conversation she told him to get another sweetheart. That broke my son up, he had to go inside. He then asked Jenny if she would take him for a walk, he did not want to go on his own so she agreed .The next day she took him up the street trying to keep 2 metres away but it proved impossible, he couldn't understand nor hear as he wanted to chat. In all of this he has been talking about his grandson, looking forward to him coming and making excuses for him saying he will be busy at the football club he works for with players contracts etc and praising him.

Upset by his families abandoning him Jenny went against my suggestion and told his daughter and grandson she was disgusted with them and what she had been doing. On Thursday she had a visit from the long arm of the law. She was told if she contacts the grandson again she may be charged with harassment for sending more than two unwanted messages. Told off for taking him for a walk and told not to do it again, told off for sitting in our own gardens drinking tea and chatting. She put him right on that one saying I'm in my garden, she's in hers and the old gents in his so keeping away from each other. Telling her off for going into the house when asked by the ambulance driver, again she told him it was on his request to enable them to care for him, so he let her off that one. The officer was very sympathetic to what Jenny was trying to do, keep this man alive, get him through this time with a healthy mind but he kept saying to her its the law. Do what your told not what he needs.

On Good Friday he asked her to take him for another walk. She told him they couldn't go and he struggled to understand. Eventually she told him the police had been round and she had got into trouble for it. Why? he asked how did they know, someone grassed us up she said. He was very upset and hurt, wanted to know who it was. Jenny said she didn't know, could not tell him it was his precious grandson for what it may do to his mental health.

Yesterday we hadn't seen him for 24 hours after, he would not answer the door. We were getting worried and decided that if we do not get an answer today we will call the police to do a welfare check and put it back in their hands. Happily late yesterday we saw movement in his kitchen so Jenny's husband knocked on the door. He answered and his voice has always been a powerful shout because of his hearing. Yesterday his voice was so feeble and weak sounding. Hot food is being delivered now every day from the village Mechanics Institute. He says all food tastes vile and off and he will not eat the food being delivered to him and if they cannot raise him they leave it on the door step. Again today so far we have seen nothing of him and we are getting worried.

I think we need to contact someone about him but who? On Tuesday we are going to try Age UK and see what they can suggest. How many other isolated people are going through this, surely for their needs some common sense relaxation of the rules should be applied.

Originally Posted by macafee2

make him feel valued.

macafee2

following on from what Ian says, do you know anything about his hobbies (or former hobbies), or a former job/career, what expertise he has? Could you or neighbours give him a task, or ask for his advice/guidance/assistance? Whether you need it or not. If nothing else, you may get to hear interesting stories of his former working life etc. (I always find this fascinating when talking to older folk). Did he like a cold beer, or a wee whiskey? Perhaps passing a glass over to him? Little insignificant things will make him feel worthy.

I know social distancing will be an issue, particularly so if he develops a health problem (this is where his family I reckon would become involved, not for him, but to blame you/neighbour and try to absolve themselves of their neglect - justified or not). However, if you feel you are relatively safe in terms of being infected, a bit of common sense when associating with him perhaps?

[Les4048]

A certain barrier is being profoundly Deaf. I used to associate with a lot of Deaf people and did BSL sign language and this is what he probably needs to communicate easily. I’m of course assuming he uses BSL

[macafee2]

Originally Posted by RPWC

I get what you're saying Ian but if the old man was a grumpy nasty piece of work, surely it would have shown up with the o p's conversations with him.?

No not always, some people can be nice to everyone except the people they don't like.
Lets say X has been nasty to A and B.
D is a neighbour to X, D and X talk. Why would X confess to being nasty?
X can even lie.
D does not talk to A or B so how does D know the truth?
X is very pleasant to D.
E comes on the scene and asks A and B to help X. They all refuse.
E tells D they all refuse. D and E can only act on what they "know", X is pleasant to them, A and B refuse to help

who looks bad? It is that easy to show the victims as the nasty people and the nasty person as the frail innocent person.

Perhaps instead of X being nasty lets associate a crime to X that A and B think is disgusting. Being related are too ashamed to tell anyone.
X does not tell anyone.

Of course this brings up an idea for the OP, ask the family about the falling out and put this to the old man for clarification. If you get the same story from both parties then fine, if you get different then you have a problem, then ask for evidence, talk is cheap but back it up with evidence.

macafee2

[RPWC]

I can see where you are coming from now, but (with respect) .think you are reading too much into it. The problem now lies with the fact that the immediate neighbour spoke her mind to the family. It is no one’s business but the family and old man himself, the reason for the fall out, so to ask why they fell out is wrong.
I agree with Alan’s suggestion of trying to engage him with conversation. In my humble opinion if there is a frail old man who’s welfare is at risk, I would certainly be contacting relevant authorities just to seek advice if nothing else. If you do contact them, don’t mention that you have already spoken to his family. Just say you don’t know if he has family if questioned.