“Clutch” Failure

Mike523152 · 29th June 2020, 09:45

My 75 2.0 CDTI is currently in the garage with a “clutch” problem, basically changing gear became increasingly difficult over the space of about 1 week and very few miles, no noticeable issues previously detected with the clutch and the AA mechanic thought it was a hydraulic issue. Car was towed to a mechanic and they tell me they can’t identify the cause of the problem until the gearbox is removed and only then will they be able to tell what is up with it, DMF, clutch, master or slave cylinder etc. is this correct as the cost to remove the gearbox alone isn’t cheap.
I have AA breakdown and parts cover which will cover a part if not all the costs providing it isn’t due to wear and tear and or clutch failure. I am concerned that I am going to get stung by the mechanic and or the AA on this, can anyone offer any advice on what if anything I should look out for to prevent being screwed over with this.

macafee2 · 29th June 2020, 10:21

what happens when you push and then release the clutch pedal?
can you describe what you feel when changing gear?

I would ask the garage to remove the master cylinder cap and check to see how much fluid is in the reservoir.
If you have an under tray fitted, remove it and see if there is any signs of a leak under the bell housing.

From previous threads DMF's are not a common failure but hydraulics are.

macafee2

Mike Noc · 29th June 2020, 10:29

Well if the garage can't determine if the master cylinder is good or not without removing the gearbox I wouldn't be using them.

A simple refill and bleed of the circuit and then disconnecting the quick release connector and pressing the clutch pedal will tell you if the master cylinder has failed or not - the pedal should be rock hard.

Another quick test for determining if the slave cylinder has failed is looking for fluid coming out under the gearbox where it bolts up to the engine.

Don't let them replace the DMF unless they have measured the radial and axial play and it is beyond the wear limits. They usually don't need replacing - my DMF is original at 404k miles.

If you aren't sure about the garage get them to refill and bleed the system and try contacting Phil T4 on here - if the garage he works at will do it then you know you will get a good job, and well worth a trip to Olney.

Mike523152 · 29th June 2020, 11:41

Thanks for the replies, the AA mechanic checked the fluid level and clutch pedal movement, although he simply confirmed what I already knew, neither were at issue, clutch worked perfectly well, fluid levels were fine and no signs of leakage, I say the clutch worked perfectly well as no noticeable sign of difficult gear changes or slippage whatsoever were present prior to the problem. The problem arose quickly, driving went to change gear and thought due to lack of recent driving I’d not depressed the clutch enough or released too early so grated a bit, thereafter gear change quickly became difficult no noticeable “clutch” problem as when in gear drove as well as ever. However within probably no more than 20 miles of driving, if that it became impossible to put into gear, couldn’t even move the car of my drive. Points noted about the DMF and will ask to see for myself before any work carried out.

macafee2 · 29th June 2020, 11:51

Although this is doubtful may be worth checking.
The gear change cables at the gearbox end are held in place by spring clips. If one has snapped the cable could be free preventing a gear change.

The spring clips are no longer available but if yours has snapped, let people here know and you may get one.

macafee2

COLVERT · 29th June 2020, 15:49

It's going to be the master or slave cylinder failing.

The master won't show any leaks as the failure will be internal.

As previous posts. Take off the under tray and check for leaks from the gear box bell housing. A leak showing there will mean the slave cylinder has failed.---

( the front seal. )

Odd Job · 29th June 2020, 16:34

I've recently had my clutch replaced on my diesel, 3 piece kit, friction plate, pressure plate and concentric slave. The DMF absolutely fine.

When I picked the car up the pedal didn't feel too great, the gears hard to select without grating, easy to stall, pretty much how you describe your symptoms.
so with permission off the garage as not to invalidate the warranty I bled the clutch. All was fine that day, but the following day I had issues again in just the same way. I'm obviously not using the car at the moment as I don't want gearbox failure to be added to the issue.

It goes back in this week to have a new master cylinder fitted. We believe that air is passing the seals on the master cylinder.

Like has been said above, any garage worth a jot should be able to diagnose a hydraulic issue by having a go at bleeding the clutch first without removing the gearbox.

Sadly on the diesel clutch issues are far too common .

Best of luck with it, hope it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg!

COLVERT · 29th June 2020, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odd Job

I've recently had my clutch replaced on my diesel, 3 piece kit, friction plate, pressure plate and concentric slave. The DMF absolutely fine.

When I picked the car up the pedal didn't feel too great, the gears hard to select without grating, easy to stall, pretty much how you describe your symptoms.
so with permission off the garage as not to invalidate the warranty I bled the clutch. All was fine that day, but the following day I had issues again in just the same way. I'm obviously not using the car at the moment as I don't want gearbox failure to be added to the issue.

It goes back in this week to have a new master cylinder fitted. We believe that air is passing the seals on the master cylinder.

Like has been said above, any garage worth a jot should be able to diagnose a hydraulic issue by having a go at bleeding the clutch first without removing the gearbox.

Sadly on the diesel clutch issues are far too common .

Best of luck with it, hope it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg!

It won't be air passing the seals in the master cylinder unless the reservoir is empty.

If the reservoir is full then the master cylinder can only not work if the seals are worn. Fluid can then pass backwards and forwards but not do any work.---

Mike523152 · 30th June 2020, 14:18

Just called the garage, car was supposed to be on the ramps all day, “still not got the gearbox out after 5 hours“, should I be worried?

COLVERT · 30th June 2020, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike523152

Just called the garage, car was supposed to be on the ramps all day, “still not got the gearbox out after 5 hours“, should I be worried?

Maybe.---

That's enough time to do the complete job and get it running again.---

29th June 2020, 09:45	#1
Mike523152 Newbie ROVER 75 CONTEMPORARY SE CDTI 2004 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Kettering Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	“Clutch” Failure My 75 2.0 CDTI is currently in the garage with a “clutch” problem, basically changing gear became increasingly difficult over the space of about 1 week and very few miles, no noticeable issues previously detected with the clutch and the AA mechanic thought it was a hydraulic issue. Car was towed to a mechanic and they tell me they can’t identify the cause of the problem until the gearbox is removed and only then will they be able to tell what is up with it, DMF, clutch, master or slave cylinder etc. is this correct as the cost to remove the gearbox alone isn’t cheap. I have AA breakdown and parts cover which will cover a part if not all the costs providing it isn’t due to wear and tear and or clutch failure. I am concerned that I am going to get stung by the mechanic and or the AA on this, can anyone offer any advice on what if anything I should look out for to prevent being screwed over with this.

29th June 2020, 16:34	#7
Odd Job Gets stuck in MG ZT 2.0 cdti Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Derby Posts: 909 Thanks: 298 Thanked 191 Times in 149 Posts	I've recently had my clutch replaced on my diesel, 3 piece kit, friction plate, pressure plate and concentric slave. The DMF absolutely fine. When I picked the car up the pedal didn't feel too great, the gears hard to select without grating, easy to stall, pretty much how you describe your symptoms. so with permission off the garage as not to invalidate the warranty I bled the clutch. All was fine that day, but the following day I had issues again in just the same way. I'm obviously not using the car at the moment as I don't want gearbox failure to be added to the issue. It goes back in this week to have a new master cylinder fitted. We believe that air is passing the seals on the master cylinder. Like has been said above, any garage worth a jot should be able to diagnose a hydraulic issue by having a go at bleeding the clutch first without removing the gearbox. Sadly on the diesel clutch issues are far too common . Best of luck with it, hope it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg! __________________ ….And the latest thing to break is..... ### MG STANDS FOR "MY GREMLIN" !!!

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29th June 2020, 10:21	#2
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,912 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	what happens when you push and then release the clutch pedal? can you describe what you feel when changing gear? I would ask the garage to remove the master cylinder cap and check to see how much fluid is in the reservoir. If you have an under tray fitted, remove it and see if there is any signs of a leak under the bell housing. From previous threads DMF's are not a common failure but hydraulics are. macafee2

29th June 2020, 10:29	#3
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,547 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Well if the garage can't determine if the master cylinder is good or not without removing the gearbox I wouldn't be using them. A simple refill and bleed of the circuit and then disconnecting the quick release connector and pressing the clutch pedal will tell you if the master cylinder has failed or not - the pedal should be rock hard. Another quick test for determining if the slave cylinder has failed is looking for fluid coming out under the gearbox where it bolts up to the engine. Don't let them replace the DMF unless they have measured the radial and axial play and it is beyond the wear limits. They usually don't need replacing - my DMF is original at 404k miles. If you aren't sure about the garage get them to refill and bleed the system and try contacting Phil T4 on here - if the garage he works at will do it then you know you will get a good job, and well worth a trip to Olney.

29th June 2020, 11:41	#4
Mike523152 Newbie ROVER 75 CONTEMPORARY SE CDTI 2004 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Kettering Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the replies, the AA mechanic checked the fluid level and clutch pedal movement, although he simply confirmed what I already knew, neither were at issue, clutch worked perfectly well, fluid levels were fine and no signs of leakage, I say the clutch worked perfectly well as no noticeable sign of difficult gear changes or slippage whatsoever were present prior to the problem. The problem arose quickly, driving went to change gear and thought due to lack of recent driving I’d not depressed the clutch enough or released too early so grated a bit, thereafter gear change quickly became difficult no noticeable “clutch” problem as when in gear drove as well as ever. However within probably no more than 20 miles of driving, if that it became impossible to put into gear, couldn’t even move the car of my drive. Points noted about the DMF and will ask to see for myself before any work carried out.

29th June 2020, 11:51	#5
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,912 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	Although this is doubtful may be worth checking. The gear change cables at the gearbox end are held in place by spring clips. If one has snapped the cable could be free preventing a gear change. The spring clips are no longer available but if yours has snapped, let people here know and you may get one. macafee2

30th June 2020, 14:18	#9
Mike523152 Newbie ROVER 75 CONTEMPORARY SE CDTI 2004 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Kettering Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just called the garage, car was supposed to be on the ramps all day, “still not got the gearbox out after 5 hours“, should I be worried?