More on the EGR Bypass Valve....Modify or Leave alone - Page 5

JohnDotCom · 4th December 2007, 18:03

Oh No I'm far worse face to face believe me.
As long as I know what I'm arguing about to be correct I won't let go I'm afraid.

As in going to a local school to complain and have a Constructive discussion on Ba Ba Green Sheep I ask you.
The NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- things around here are either Black or White never yet seen a Green one even after the Russian Nuclear Disaster.

I actually had my Granddaughter ask WHERE The green ones were, so Off I stormed.
At the Parents Teachers meeting I in the end managed to get them, with backing, to proper facts, not Politically correct Garbage!!
Rant Over Sorry,
Back to Thread.

Rincewind · 4th December 2007, 20:20

Or perhaps I should have said (without managing to confuzz myslef) we bypass the EGR system in a number of ways so that it doesn't work full stop.

The OBD limits have a much higher limit than the figures used for a "standard" European drive cycle. The numbers that I quoted for the second test are a long way under the OBD limits but after the calculation in relation to the legislatitive EUIV limits, you can see how much above the limits the vehicle is.

Having witnessed many emissions tests on diesel and petrol vehicles with EGR, the results speak for them selves. As I've said, I'm not exactly Mr Green (lord knows I'm not having poured more fuel than I've ever poured into a car whilst doing the European and American brakes testing on the new Aston Martin DBS - 2.9 mpg anyone??? and loved every single second of it!), but I hope that people can understand a little about why EGR's are so important to a vehicle in todays engine installations. If they were really as bad as people perceive them to be then manufacturers would seek other alternatives, but as they don't really affect engine performance that much, why bypass them?

Lively debate though isn't it!

baxlin · 4th December 2007, 20:36

I admit to not fully understanding the workings of the EGR valve, but I can't find anywhere in this thread where the tests actually use an EGR BYPASS, as sold by Wingy, and fitted to many owners' cars, including mine.

The tests seem to be with EGR "disabled", or "disconnected", but still in place. Do the tests referred to include any with a bypass, as I thought part of the idea of the bypass was to remove the lump of metal partly blocking the pipe?

Forgive me if I've missed something.

Thanks

Malcolm (aka "confused of Tring")

dionh · 4th December 2007, 23:41

I suspect that the perceived wisdom of impartial readers of this forum will have changed. As one with no axe to grind either way, mine certainly has.
I recently removed the EGR valve on my ZT-T and found the huge build-up of crud (five years old, regular dealer service, obviously never been cleaned). So I cleaned it (not difficult) and then pondered whether or not to get the by-pass and avoid the chore for the future.
Having followed this thread, I have decided to stick with what I've got.
If it ain't broke don't fix it - just clean it.
Di.

BigRuss · 5th December 2007, 00:11

Thanks for your clarification Rincewind.
I am man enough to apologise for any wrong conclusion that I may have reached by my mis-interpretation of your statement. From it I had gathered that the Egr valve was open allowing exhaust gas into the manifold in the second table. I was concerned however that the amount of particulate had increased as I thought that with a rise in nox this would have reduced?

The things that bother me are that with the EGR bypass fitted the car runs smoother and pulls better(even with the Ron box turned off) and that the fuel consumption has improved.
Emmision issues aside the average +3mpg that I have experienced equatates to an improvement of around 8% which is by no means an insignificant amount. I have also witnessed a reduction in smoke.

From the posts others have found this too. This cannot surely be a fluke. Either the egr system on our cars were faulty in some way (mine seemed to be free enough with no sticking or bad seal) or that there may be a genuine improvement by fitting it when combined with the other modifications.

At least we can gather from this lively (and hopefully) informative dicussion that evryone will have their own thoughts on this, to which they are entitled. Gather your own conclusions, should I or shouldn't I, it's completely up to you, it's down to personal choice.

Personally I'm very happy with the improvements and the change in performance that these modifications have given the car. Especially the improvement in mpg.
If it has increased some emmisions slightly then so be it, but there again I don't sit in commuter traffic, or run the kids 300 yards to school in a whopping big gas guzzling 4x4.

And anyway will anyone give a monkey's in 100 years time to any of this .....

Think about it

Russ

GERFIX · 5th December 2007, 05:58

At the weekend I removed and cleaned my EGR valve. It was the usual 4-year old build up of crud! I decided to disable it by blanking it off (with a "custom-made" cut-out piece of tuna-tin lid!!) and blanking off the vacuum tube. I also cleaned my MAF snsor and PCV valve. I haven't noticed any discernable difference in the few miles I've done so far but if there is any significant improvement/detriment I'll be sure to let you all know.

mattl · 5th December 2007, 06:00

Well Im going to get an EGR bypass, purely in the interests of economy and performance. Look at the restriction that the stock EGR valve has and you will see why. Its a fact that increased airflow leads to increased efficiency and performance.....and thats enough for me.

Also after having seen the amount of crud that accumulates inside the egr, id rather blank it off thank you very much.

Rincewind · 5th December 2007, 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigruss42

Thanks for your clarification Rinceweed.

Who's Rinceweed

???

JohnDotCom · 5th December 2007, 08:01

Name Corrected Nic,
to protect the Innocent.

Roverron · 5th December 2007, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by julesbass

Just been reading an article on Honest John an excellent review Website:
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/
See also
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=121&

This is admittedly about a Ford Galaxy 1.9Tdi, but I wonder if this would apply to 75 ZT owners who have disabled their EGR or fitted a bypass.

The consequences can be dire...............read on

"On TDIs, EGR valve should open to allow carbon dioxide, which acts as a cooling gas) into the combustion chambers when the engine is under load (>30% boost). This allows the combustion chamber temperature to drop and thus the temperature of the exhaust gases. If it sticks in the closed position the exhaust gas temperature will rise causing a) the turbo bearings to fail and b) engine oil into the induction system. This can cause the engine to run on its crankcase oil until it is either stalled or goes bang. Problems with EGR valves in TDI engines are often the cause of rough running when the valve is stuck in the open position as well. In several cases turbos have blown but the EGR valve has not been replaced. Inevitably the new turbo unit will not last long."

Come on technical bods, lets have some more clarification on this subject!

Honest John is talking rubbish. He has no proof at all and any engine that relied upon the egr system for reliability is a liability.

Here are the facts which make nonsense of his waffle:

a) Exhaust gas recirculation was introduced in about 1996 as a NOx and HC reduction strategy. Presumably therefore, manufacturers all redesigned their engines to 'need' a functioning egr system to be reliable? I don't think so! The reduction in temperature is not significant for engine / turbo reliability, it is simply the way the NOx reduction is achieved. If significantly higher temperatures were generated with no egr system, the cooling system (water and oil) would take care of the excess heat. (Has anyone noticed their temperature guage reading higher since removing the egr valve)

b) It ONLY operates on part load - above 60% it is disabled which is the very time the engine is working harder. Yet do owners towing caravans (when average load is much higher) suffer from reliability problems?

c) As far as disabling v removal is concerned. the reason for removing it is because the valve assembly obstructs the airflow. So disabling it is not the same as removing it.

d) Find me anyone who has had a problem with their Landrover Td5 (egr bypasses have been on sale for years for these), TD4, 75, ZT, BMW who has
had a problem that can only be explained by a non functioning egr system.

Whatever your views on pullution/green issues, the egr bypass is effective at reducing smoke (particulates) and by improving fuel efficiency, CO2 as well. Personally I see these two pollutants as being more important than NOx.

Ron

4th December 2007, 18:03	#41
JohnDotCom * Rover 75 FaceLift Tourer CDTi 170BHP Auto ConnSE 2005 Model Starlight Silver Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Abergele Posts: 28,735 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Oh No I'm far worse face to face believe me. As long as I know what I'm arguing about to be correct I won't let go I'm afraid. As in going to a local school to complain and have a Constructive discussion on Ba Ba Green Sheep I ask you. The NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- things around here are either Black or White never yet seen a Green one even after the Russian Nuclear Disaster. I actually had my Granddaughter ask WHERE The green ones were, so Off I stormed. At the Parents Teachers meeting I in the end managed to get them, with backing, to proper facts, not Politically correct Garbage!! Rant Over Sorry, Back to Thread. Last edited by JohnDotCom; 4th December 2007 at 18:08..

4th December 2007, 20:20	#42
Rincewind Loves to post MINI Cooper S Works (Superchardged not Turbo!) Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ashby-de-la-Zouch Posts: 385 Thanks: 9 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Or perhaps I should have said (without managing to confuzz myslef) we bypass the EGR system in a number of ways so that it doesn't work full stop. The OBD limits have a much higher limit than the figures used for a "standard" European drive cycle. The numbers that I quoted for the second test are a long way under the OBD limits but after the calculation in relation to the legislatitive EUIV limits, you can see how much above the limits the vehicle is. Having witnessed many emissions tests on diesel and petrol vehicles with EGR, the results speak for them selves. As I've said, I'm not exactly Mr Green (lord knows I'm not having poured more fuel than I've ever poured into a car whilst doing the European and American brakes testing on the new Aston Martin DBS - 2.9 mpg anyone??? and loved every single second of it!), but I hope that people can understand a little about why EGR's are so important to a vehicle in todays engine installations. If they were really as bad as people perceive them to be then manufacturers would seek other alternatives, but as they don't really affect engine performance that much, why bypass them? Lively debate though isn't it! __________________ Rincewind had been told that death was just like going into another room. *The difference is, when you shout, "Where's my clean socks?", no-one answers* MGR stories, MGR help and advice all available at no extra cost ! The Two Sixties - it's a V8 thing ... Honorary Member and Puddle of V8/4/6cyl Knowledge et al. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Come see who I work for at www.vca.gov.uk without us, the world would be a right mess!

5th December 2007, 00:11	#45
BigRuss Premium Trader 75 CDT Tourer,2.5 Launch Saloon, Omipro MG/Rover (T4) Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Liversedge, West Yorkshire Posts: 5,406 Thanks: 1,105 Thanked 1,340 Times in 661 Posts	Thanks for your clarification Rincewind. I am man enough to apologise for any wrong conclusion that I may have reached by my mis-interpretation of your statement. From it I had gathered that the Egr valve was open allowing exhaust gas into the manifold in the second table. I was concerned however that the amount of particulate had increased as I thought that with a rise in nox this would have reduced? The things that bother me are that with the EGR bypass fitted the car runs smoother and pulls better(even with the Ron box turned off) and that the fuel consumption has improved. Emmision issues aside the average +3mpg that I have experienced equatates to an improvement of around 8% which is by no means an insignificant amount. I have also witnessed a reduction in smoke. From the posts others have found this too. This cannot surely be a fluke. Either the egr system on our cars were faulty in some way (mine seemed to be free enough with no sticking or bad seal) or that there may be a genuine improvement by fitting it when combined with the other modifications. At least we can gather from this lively (and hopefully) informative dicussion that evryone will have their own thoughts on this, to which they are entitled. Gather your own conclusions, should I or shouldn't I, it's completely up to you, it's down to personal choice. Personally I'm very happy with the improvements and the change in performance that these modifications have given the car. Especially the improvement in mpg. If it has increased some emmisions slightly then so be it, but there again I don't sit in commuter traffic, or run the kids 300 yards to school in a whopping big gas guzzling 4x4. And anyway will anyone give a monkey's in 100 years time to any of this ..... Think about it Russ Last edited by JohnDotCom; 5th December 2007 at 07:59.. Reason: spelling of member

4th December 2007, 20:36	#43
baxlin This is my second home Volvo C70 Convertible and JZR 3 wheeler Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tring, Herts Posts: 3,960 Thanks: 124 Thanked 173 Times in 124 Posts	I admit to not fully understanding the workings of the EGR valve, but I can't find anywhere in this thread where the tests actually use an EGR BYPASS, as sold by Wingy, and fitted to many owners' cars, including mine. The tests seem to be with EGR "disabled", or "disconnected", but still in place. Do the tests referred to include any with a bypass, as I thought part of the idea of the bypass was to remove the lump of metal partly blocking the pipe? Forgive me if I've missed something. Thanks Malcolm (aka "confused of Tring")

4th December 2007, 23:41	#44
dionh Regular poster MG ZT-T cdti 135 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Monmouth Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I suspect that the perceived wisdom of impartial readers of this forum will have changed. As one with no axe to grind either way, mine certainly has. I recently removed the EGR valve on my ZT-T and found the huge build-up of crud (five years old, regular dealer service, obviously never been cleaned). So I cleaned it (not difficult) and then pondered whether or not to get the by-pass and avoid the chore for the future. Having followed this thread, I have decided to stick with what I've got. If it ain't broke don't fix it - just clean it. Di.

5th December 2007, 05:58	#46
GERFIX I really should get out more....... MINI COOPER S Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tranent, East Lothian, SCOTLAND Posts: 2,834 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	At the weekend I removed and cleaned my EGR valve. It was the usual 4-year old build up of crud! I decided to disable it by blanking it off (with a "custom-made" cut-out piece of tuna-tin lid!!) and blanking off the vacuum tube. I also cleaned my MAF snsor and PCV valve. I haven't noticed any discernable difference in the few miles I've done so far but if there is any significant improvement/detriment I'll be sure to let you all know.

5th December 2007, 06:00	#47
mattl Avid contributor MG ZT260 SE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Solihull Posts: 162 Thanks: 16 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts	Well Im going to get an EGR bypass, purely in the interests of economy and performance. Look at the restriction that the stock EGR valve has and you will see why. Its a fact that increased airflow leads to increased efficiency and performance.....and thats enough for me. Also after having seen the amount of crud that accumulates inside the egr, id rather blank it off thank you very much.

5th December 2007, 08:01	#49
JohnDotCom * Rover 75 FaceLift Tourer CDTi 170BHP Auto ConnSE 2005 Model Starlight Silver Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Abergele Posts: 28,735 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Name Corrected Nic, to protect the Innocent.