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Old 1st November 2019, 17:30   #1
MGJohn
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Default Are EVs really the answer in the future? I do not think so.

Over on other car enthusiasts' sites, interesting discussions on this subject confirm how I see the reality of the future for transport of people and goods.

The forceful winds of change are blowing but people are leaning in the wrong direction as a result.

German Automotive Industrial Base have BIG concerns. Consider what is written here:~

Germany is Having an Existential Crisis About Cars


Over on another web-site, one contributor sums it all up in much the same ways I would have done. I copy the whole post here :~

====

Mark my words, we are turning into a nation of robots, governed by plebiscite and orchestrated mass demonstration, with children subject to relentless one sided unreasoning propaganda. It's like the early stages of Nazi Germany.

'First they came for the car owners.....' as Bonhoeffer might have said.

Which politically exposed victim group is next?

And we, the Great British have become a nation of nodding Churchill dogs, Yes-Men, compliant sheep, ironically wearing t-shirts with slogans like 'Dare to be Different!'. Is this what Britain fought the Second World War for? It's hard to believe it is the same country.

As far as I am concerned they can stick their electric Porsches so far up their back passages that they can clean the headlights with their toothbrushes. I can't believe I am alone in that.

Technological revolution, like the Wheel, like the Bronze Age, like the Iron Age, like Steam, like the Horseless Carriage, happened because the new technology was so much better than the old that the old was redundant. These were big revolutions that affected many people. This is not the same. The 'new' (actually rather older) technology of electric drive was tried many times and found inadequate. That is why it has never been adopted. It is not better, it is demonstrably worse, nor is it in any way environmentally friendly, but we are to be forced into it because particular interest groups and their three and sixpenny politicians tell us its for our own good. And we are all supposed to adopt the Emperor's New Clothes so we can feel good about ourselves and get praise from our puppetmasters. Because that is all most of us are, puppets who do as we are told even when that means saying black is white.

All the car manufacturers are to be forced to spend many tens of billions to produce rubbish most of us don't want to buy. Who will cover their losses this time?

This is the result of political ‘correctness’. Companies do not what is commercially viable but what the politicians tell them to do. Whole industries spring up not because they serve a real need, but because the government is prepared to throw huge sums of money (our money, incidentally) at them. That is the real legacy of Tony Blair and that halfwit bully Gordon Brown. Then they crow about their successes, which are totally contrived. They fund their pet projects, and become the country's biggest customer, acting surprised when everyone agrees with them. Of course they agree with them, the customer is always right. The whole economy is rigged. And when the money runs out, as it inevitably does, because politicians are not business people, they quietly walk away, the companies are left to sink, while the politicians move on to the House of Lords. And this country, on that basis, is going to compete in the world as a trading nation? Trading what, hot air - its the only commodity we have loads of? Pull the other one.

======

How do others here see the future ?
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Old 1st November 2019, 17:40   #2
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That's a joke John, right? A curious mixture of A. Scargill, Michael Foot and Lenin. A great rant, but I bet he's building an Arc in his shed.
Germany is in trouble, in fact teetering on the brink, but it stems mainly from too much reliance on one industry in the face of technology advances to finance itself. Coupled with the Euro in a wheelbarrow the coffers are depleting. Not dissimilar to the 1930's. Add that to friction from AfD and the seeds are set for upheaval if they are not careful.

As for EV's, bring it on. I can see competition from Hydrogen powered vehicles as well and there's quite a lot of it about too. Plus, the energy locked up in one single atom is phenomenal when compared to conventional electricity generation.
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Old 1st November 2019, 17:57   #3
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Wink You cannot be serious ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wraymond View Post
That's a joke John, right? A curious mixture of A. Scargill, Michael Foot and Lenin. A great rant, but I bet he's building an Arc in his shed.
Someone holding a raquet once SHOUTED

Quote:

You cannot be serious !
Is that how you see these things? I am not so certain.

If those nice LibDem Ladies get their way and the UK is Carbon Neutral next day, fat difference it will make when the rest of the Shark Infested Commercial World sees the UK minnows as non-competitive then like the sharks, run true to form .... Far too late then for the Nation to ...

The innovative and resourceful DYSON has shelved his expensive EV research and development project and his reasons appear very valid.... Non-viable.

Arc in a shed... Shrewd move... You may have something there. Have you looked outside at all over the past few days ...

Beyond precipitation imminent as they say on the Weather Forecasts... Be prepared ... Best Policy...

Meantime, I will continue to enjoy my Petrol Turbo MGs and Rovers until such time as they send the big strong geezers in white coats after me...
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Old 1st November 2019, 18:56   #4
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MG John said:"Meantime, I will continue to enjoy my Petrol Turbo MGs and Rovers until such time as they send the big strong geezers in white coats after me...". Except it will be the be the big strong geezers in the dark blue uniforms and stab vests! For my part, I am looking forward to the day I can afford an EV that will get me from A to B without the inconvenience that the current technology and infrastructure apparently provide. I think you would have to recognise that whatever its causes, climate change is real, and at a rate that humanity is struggling to adapt to. While I am old enough to take the complacent attitude that it probably won't affect me that badly, the sooner we stop adding to the planet's atmospheric energy, the more chance we have of having the time to adapt to the ever more extreme weather events that will reduce our advanced technological world to submerged rubble, and leave our children spend their lives trying to cope with results of our generation consumption-driven and self-indulgent indulgent lives. No wonder a highly intelligent 16 year old is leading her non- compliant rebels to take actions that will hopefully shake the complacency of so many of us older folk. Are we going to carry on dancing on the deck of the Titanic because somebody said it was unsinkable? There may actually still be time to plug the leak, or close the bulkhead doors.
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Old 1st November 2019, 19:08   #5
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This is making a lot of sense to me.
The EV technology is just not up to the job of transportation of any kind let alone the huge investment in charging points in streets where you canít park your car even 50 metres from you house. A friend has just bought a Hyundai hybrid which makes some sense with a 1.6 litre petrol and EV technology combined.
I think back to my Scimitar 3 litre GTE. Fuel spark and compression and it would run all day long. No electronic sensors of gimmicks. Motoring in its simplest form. Add to the fact it ran cleaner than a lot of cars put through the emissions test, the MOT garages loved its ease of testing. Very little to go wrong. All I added was electronic ignition to replace contact points. Improved it overnight with better reliability and smoother running as timing was always spot on.
Have we now seen the best of what a motor car should be? Have we not gone into a period of over complicated and unnecessary gimmicks. The wheel has been the same shape since it was first made. Are we really improving the motor car ability and future viability? I donít think so.
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Old 1st November 2019, 19:24   #6
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Default That is the sensible view of too few Comfortably Numb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
MG John said:"Meantime, I will continue to enjoy my Petrol Turbo MGs and Rovers until such time as they send the big strong geezers in white coats after me...". Except it will be the be the big strong geezers in the dark blue uniforms and stab vests! For my part, I am looking forward to the day I can afford an EV that will get me from A to B without the inconvenience that the current technology and infrastructure apparently provide. I think you would have to recognise that whatever its causes, climate change is real, and at a rate that humanity is struggling to adapt to. While I am old enough to take the complacent attitude that it probably won't affect me that badly, the sooner we stop adding to the planet's atmospheric energy, the more chance we have of having the time to adapt to the ever more extreme weather events that will reduce our advanced technological world to submerged rubble, and leave our children spend their lives trying to cope with results of our generation consumption-driven and self-indulgent indulgent lives. No wonder a highly intelligent 16 year old is leading her non- compliant rebels to take actions that will hopefully shake the complacency of so many of us older folk. Are we going to carry on dancing on the deck of the Titanic because somebody said it was unsinkable? There may actually still be time to plug the leak, or close the bulkhead doors.
That is the sensible view of far too few Comfortably Numb.

Some, myself included feel it is already far too late to change what some see as inevitable. The damage is done and Mother Nature in all her forms will have the very final say.

The prime cause in my view is that there are simply far too many of the most harmful species the planet has ever had evolve on it. A species with an uncontrolled breeding programme. As more and more want a bigger share of the Planet's finite resources, stand by for some really nasty stuff later when those in a more powerful position to do so, decide to have more than their fair share of those limited resources.

Children are your concern. Mine too.

Meantime cultures conditioned to outbreed those other different cultures they see as a threat ( that's pretty much most if not all of them ) ensures those diminishing finite resources will never be enough. One of our "Ever so clever" Political leaders has promised to remove the Child Benefit Cap and extend it maybe without any restraint total. Thus ensuring more folks born to vote for that party in the future. What a cunning plan. Whatever next? Lots of unearned wage and salary increases for the Public Sector. Thus ensuring more lovely votes.

All too late I realise now I've been a real mug. Should have planned lots of children far earlier. I was over forty years of age when my wife and I decided we could afford a child. Note my choice of the word AFFORD. That after closing on twenty years of paying a crippling mortgage from a working childless couple's two incomes. Yes, what a mug. We should have had lots of kids we could never afford to look after properly and turned to the taxpayers to support our breeding programme. Do it right with a feed me, clothe me, house me as of right attitude with all the demands on resources that would involve. Now retired, I fear I along with millions of other pensioners, are seen as Money Trees by certain parties and must be penalised accordingly.

Joking some may accuse ... or, am I?

Must close now. Loud knocking on the door ... all very strange. Two BIG GEEZERS in white coats...



Exit MGJohn issuing maniacal laughter ..

Muhahahahahahahaahahh .. ha...
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Old 1st November 2019, 19:27   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
MG John said:"Meantime, I will continue to enjoy my Petrol Turbo MGs and Rovers until such time as they send the big strong geezers in white coats after me...". Except it will be the be the big strong geezers in the dark blue uniforms and stab vests! For my part, I am looking forward to the day I can afford an EV that will get me from A to B without the inconvenience that the current technology and infrastructure apparently provide. I think you would have to recognise that whatever its causes, climate change is real, and at a rate that humanity is struggling to adapt to. While I am old enough to take the complacent attitude that it probably won't affect me that badly, the sooner we stop adding to the planet's atmospheric energy, the more chance we have of having the time to adapt to the ever more extreme weather events that will reduce our advanced technological world to submerged rubble, and leave our children spend their lives trying to cope with results of our generation consumption-driven and self-indulgent indulgent lives. No wonder a highly intelligent 16 year old is leading her non- compliant rebels to take actions that will hopefully shake the complacency of so many of us older folk. Are we going to carry on dancing on the deck of the Titanic because somebody said it was unsinkable? There may actually still be time to plug the leak, or close the bulkhead doors.
Andrew, could you please turn out the lights if you are the last one out

Greta Thunberg if she wasn't a singularly minded would see there is little to be gained in mining huge amounts of scarce minerals to create EV batteries, batteries that are hugely expensive to recycle.

Quite contrary to being "robbed of her childhood" as claimed, it should be noted that people who live with ASD often focus on a particular subject, often without seeing the larger picture.


Apart from anything else, there isn't the infrastructure in place to charge these EV, another little snippet the roll out "smart meters", these are very important to allow the national grid to be relieved at peak times by virtue of enforced remotely controlled brownouts.


If there is to be a roll out of EV it should be driven by market forces, and not blinkered politicos with vested interests.

Brian
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Old 1st November 2019, 19:29   #8
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EV is not going to solve any problem, you get nothing for nothing, you get nothing for nothing and Dieselgate should have opened peoples eyes???? The biggest problem in the world is overpopulation and if we ignore it "we are all doomed Captain Mannering" and electric cars/or whathaveyou are going to have no good effect-they are polluting from start to finish. Chris S.
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Old 1st November 2019, 20:22   #9
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Default Environment and stuff.

Also many appear to conveniently forget. Those batteries need to be charged regularly as long as the vehicle is in use. Where does that charging energy come from? It is massively and evermore increasingly costly to generate. Not only very costly, but at a huge impact and cost to the environment rarely highlighted by those who regard the rest of us as unwashed plebs. Lot of that about recently and looks to be on the increase in all directions and levels.

Next time you stand on a Motorway Bridge, look down and see the numerous "freight trains" on rubber pounding away all over the shop. How are they going to be powered electrically?

In closing, I'd bet a nice few quid that I have planted more trees than any of those "Green ladies" ... for thirty years, I have established and maintained a small Nature Reserve in a remote part of the county. Family owned, it has given my family and friends much pleasure over the years. Always a prime interest to me, yes, even above my love of MGs and Rovers, has been Natural History.

Some of the wildlife present and seen there over the years is amazing. Hares and Rabbits every visit. Deer and pheasants too.

Numerous Birds of Prey species are regular visitors.~ the field is inhabited by large numbers of small rodents, mainly Brown Mice which is a prime attraction to the birds of prey including three species of nocturnal Birds of prey seen regularly. Owls that is.

Best of those being a diurnal Birds of Prey the GosHawk. Have seen that hunting there at dusk. After a long day working in the area, I was sitting in my Rover having the last of the coffee from my flask when I saw the Hawk and its surprising hunting MO at dusk. Actively in view for several minutes until it peched high in a mature Oak tree.... watching.. But what. Me? For prey? Then suddenly it plunged fast straight down to the ground levelling out at the last second and dived fast and low into a dense thicket of sharp thorns. Brambles, Roses and Hawthorns which I would never try to punch with my bare fist for obvious reasons. The large Hawk plunged into that lot followed by an "explosion" of small birds which has settled down for the night to roost there. I had no idea those small birds were there in such numbers but obviously the Hawk had known that. A second or two later the Hawk emerged at agile speed closely chasing a small bird it has singled out as prey. I followed the chase until they disappeared from sight.

On another occasion, I saw my all time favourite Bird of Prey ~ a Hobby. A fast flying falcon which I saw a pair working and taking it in turn to chase down a Swift ( not for nothing are they called a Swift ) a remarkable feat. Mantled its prey on the ground. By the time I got my camera ready and fired off a shot the Falcon was fast flying away from me with the poor Swift hanging from it talons. This clearly visible on the image but, distant and small.

Seventeen species of butterflies at lest regularly breed there which are a delight to see in high summer. Numerous moths too. An oasis of wildlife surrounded by huge areas of agricultural monoculture where the wildlife stay away in droves. My reserve is a focal point for wildlife.

Had I not been sitting in my car when the GosHawk did its stuff, I would not have witnessed that remarkable observation. These shy birds would remain out of sight elsewhere. Most shy birds do not fear Cars...only people.
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Old 1st November 2019, 20:24   #10
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Sad fact is that one North European uses around 100 times the resources that a sub-Saharan African does. Ideally, we all stop using anything that is not naturally renewable, and adopt sustainable life-styles. But unfortunately, we, as a society, are hooked on consumption, and taught that it is our duty to contribute to, and ensure economic growth through hard work and consumption, by our political leaders, and the industrial entrepreneurs whose vested interests we contribute disproportionately to. I have often wondered by what chance, I happened to be born into one of the materially richest societies ever seen, instead of some fly-blown, impoverished country of the third world. It is our massive population explosion, and yes, industrial and scientific progress, that has most affected all parts of the planet, and destabilised and ruined stable and sustainable cultures such as the Native American Indians, the Aboriginal peoples of the southern hemisphere, and the nomadic tribesmen of African and Siberian plains, in the name of huge profits. Every advance we have made, has also brought huge costs to humanity, and are we really any happier than peoples living similar lives to their forbears, on the same land, with the same culture they had?
We have opened Pandora's box, and left the lid off for a long time. It is going to prove very difficult to put the lid back on. Revolution is not the answer, you just get back to where you started from.
Evolution, but quick, is what we need.
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