Go Back   The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > The 75 and ZT Owners Club General Forum
Register FAQ Image Gallery Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 7th December 2021, 21:23   #31
COLVERT
This is my second home
 
R75 Saloon.

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: France/or Devon.
Posts: 14,003
Thanks: 3,851
Thanked 2,167 Times in 1,816 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
If unconnected to a battery, the solar panel gives out between 0V (in darkness) and 18-22V in bright sunlight.

There is no reason that the voltage should pulse.

When connected to a battery, the 18-22 V in bright sunlight is 'clipped' by the battery to be between 12-13.8V, this keeps the charging voltage within acceptable limits.

WARNING: If you have a solar charger connected VIA THE CIGAR LIGHTER SOCKET, and you disconnect the battery (or any relevant fuse), this charging voltage is no longer 'clipped' by the battery, and MAY potentially rise to above 15V, (to 22V), 'potentially' damaging vehicle electronics.

So if you intend to disconnect the battery, or unplug fuses, it is a wise precaution to disconnect the solar charger from the cigar lighter socket FIRST.

FWIW, most solar chargers, when used in the latitudes of the UK, seem to give out approximately 1/2 the rated power, not what the manufactures may claim.

A 4W panel, giving 190mA for 6-8 hours, equates to 1.5Ah
Clipped ???---I guess---Absorbed by the battery would be better understood by the non technical folk.--
COLVERT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2021, 11:55   #32
MSS
This is my second home
 
Rover 75CDT, Jaguar XF-S 3.0V6, V'xhall Omega V6 Estate, Twintop 1.8VVT, Astra Estate and Corsa 1.2

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7,078
Thanks: 283
Thanked 624 Times in 440 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by COLVERT View Post
Clipped ???---I guess---Absorbed by the battery would be better understood by the non technical folk.--

Actually, clipped is better and a little more accurate. A battery does not absorb Electromotive Force (loosely called voltage), instead electrical potentials are dropped across elements.

I would have expected you to say that the panel behaves as a constant current charger.

COLVERT - this is shameful given your attention to detail and in particular detail concerning choice of words!

Last edited by MSS; 8th December 2021 at 19:45..
MSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2021, 21:09   #33
COLVERT
This is my second home
 
R75 Saloon.

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: France/or Devon.
Posts: 14,003
Thanks: 3,851
Thanked 2,167 Times in 1,816 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS View Post
Actually, clipped is better and a little more accurate. A battery does not absorb Electromotive Force (loosely called voltage), instead electrical potentials are dropped across elements.

I would have expected you to say that the panel behaves as a constant current charger.

COLVERT - this is shameful given your attention to detail and in particular detail concerning choice of words!
Clipped. Not understood by me.--Clipped is what happens to our two shih-tzus
when the dog lady comes around.

I see it as a very slight increase in surface voltage and thus reducing any potential damage to any of the cars delicate electronic bits by over-pressurising them by too high a circuit voltage.

I'll stick to my own description but thanks all the same after asking the opinion of a couple of family members.---Clipped was meaningless to them. All I got was a shrug and a negative shake of the head.

I have heard of clippies on buses and even a clip joint but never to do with batteries after more the 65 years of messing about with them.-- Get your tickets clipped over here.---Lol.




PS.
My choice of words has severely deteriorated since the word PARAGON disappeared off my T-Shirt in the weekly wash.

Last edited by COLVERT; 8th December 2021 at 21:20..
COLVERT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2021, 21:23   #34
MSS
This is my second home
 
Rover 75CDT, Jaguar XF-S 3.0V6, V'xhall Omega V6 Estate, Twintop 1.8VVT, Astra Estate and Corsa 1.2

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7,078
Thanks: 283
Thanked 624 Times in 440 Posts
Default

Clipping is a common term used in signal processing to describe what happens when the top of a waveform is flattened to a certain maximum value.

Clearly you have not trained your family well in these matters.
MSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2021, 23:14   #35
COLVERT
This is my second home
 
R75 Saloon.

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: France/or Devon.
Posts: 14,003
Thanks: 3,851
Thanked 2,167 Times in 1,816 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS View Post
Clipping is a common term used in signal processing to describe what happens when the top of a waveform is flattened to a certain maximum value.

Clearly you have not trained your family well in these matters.
Not had the time really as there are zillions of us in the family right down to the SIX great, great grandchildren.

Including Chinese, Ethiopian, Indian, Scottish, Australian and Welsh. etc.--
COLVERT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2021, 09:04   #36
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model.

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Former Middlesex
Posts: 20,265
Thanks: 1,587
Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts
Question "Clipped"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
... the 18-22 V in bright sunlight is 'clipped' by the battery to be between 12-13.8V, this keeps the charging voltage within acceptable limits.
It sounds to me as if MarkS is quoting from some gobbledegook written by the solar charger seller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS View Post
Clipping is a common term used in signal processing to describe what happens when the top of a waveform is flattened to a certain maximum value.

Indeed it is and by definition it applies to an a.c. waveform which would not be found charging an automotive lead acid battery!

It is important for everyone's understanding that correct terminology is always used. Unfortunately it isn't. To be fair to MarkS he did place the offending word within inverted commas but even that doesn't make the claim any more understandable. It is best just simply ignored.

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2021, 09:27   #37
MSS
This is my second home
 
Rover 75CDT, Jaguar XF-S 3.0V6, V'xhall Omega V6 Estate, Twintop 1.8VVT, Astra Estate and Corsa 1.2

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7,078
Thanks: 283
Thanked 624 Times in 440 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post


Indeed it is and by definition it applies to an a.c. waveform which would not be found charging an automotive lead acid battery!

It is important for everyone's understanding that correct terminology is always used. Unfortunately it isn't. To be fair to MarkS he did place the offending word within inverted commas but even that doesn't make the claim any more understandable. It is best just simply ignored.

Simon

Morning Simon, except that from a signal processing viewpoint DC is just one special case of a sinusoid in that it is a sinusoid of zero frequency. In fact most real-world signals have a DC component and many AC components where the clipping may in fact occur due to the presence of the relatively large DC component. So the term is safe to use for AC and DC, I would suggest.

In any case, it is great fun to suggest to COLVERT that he is nearly there but not quite!
MSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2021, 21:01   #38
COLVERT
This is my second home
 
R75 Saloon.

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: France/or Devon.
Posts: 14,003
Thanks: 3,851
Thanked 2,167 Times in 1,816 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS View Post
Morning Simon, except that from a signal processing viewpoint DC is just one special case of a sinusoid in that it is a sinusoid of zero frequency. In fact most real-world signals have a DC component and many AC components where the clipping may in fact occur due to the presence of the relatively large DC component. So the term is safe to use for AC and DC, I would suggest.

In any case, it is great fun to suggest to COLVERT that he is nearly there but not quite!
You have it your way and I'll have it mine.

As you like to be competitive, how about competing against my 6 great, great grandchildren. Bet you can't beat that and never will.---






Zero frequency is just that---ZERO.


Unclippable.

Last edited by COLVERT; 10th December 2021 at 21:04..
COLVERT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2021, 23:16   #39
MSS
This is my second home
 
Rover 75CDT, Jaguar XF-S 3.0V6, V'xhall Omega V6 Estate, Twintop 1.8VVT, Astra Estate and Corsa 1.2

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7,078
Thanks: 283
Thanked 624 Times in 440 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by COLVERT View Post
You have it your way and I'll have it mine.

As you like to be competitive, how about competing against my 6 great, great grandchildren. Bet you can't beat that and never will.---






Zero frequency is just that---ZERO.


Unclippable.

Six ((great^2) grandchildren) - Ok I give in.


When a DC voltage is passed through a function such that what comes out is less than what goes in, it is reasonable to call the output a clipped version of the input. It's far more reasonable than to call it absorbed, which is what I said in the first place.


PS - I'm not competitive. I just don't want you to feel that you know more then me!

Last edited by MSS; 10th December 2021 at 23:32..
MSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2021, 09:54   #40
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model.

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Former Middlesex
Posts: 20,265
Thanks: 1,587
Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS View Post
Clipping is a common term used in signal processing to describe what happens when the top of a waveform is flattened to a certain maximum value.

This is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS View Post
When a DC voltage is passed through a function such that what comes out is less than what goes in, it is reasonable to call the output a clipped version of the input.
Did you mean to write "is it"?

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.

Last edited by SD1too; 11th December 2021 at 10:00..
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 21:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © 2006-2023, The Rover 75 & MG ZT Owners Club Ltd