Disaster - cambelt failure, KV6 heads wanted - Page 6

SD1too · 2nd January 2022, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by StewartIngram

I can probably work out which item is which but it would be nice to know!

Top to bottom:

LHS: Rear sprocket/belt assembly removal/fitting tool, RHS: not used on 75/ZT

Four horseshoes: select the pair marked 2.5

LHS: 2 x locating pins for refitting rear sprocket/belt assembly, RHS: rear sprocket/belt assembly spreader used when refitting.

A pair of timing tools to set the camshafts in the correct position when fitted with the appropriate horseshoe adaptors.

LHS: knurled pin to lock flywheel (manual)/driving plate (auto),
RHS: wire pin to restrain hydraulic tensioner piston in withdrawn position.

Let me know if you need any further detail Stewart.

Simon

StewartIngram · 2nd January 2022, 11:39

Thanks for info. Whilst you were posting, Google became my friend again, I downloaded a set of instructions for the Laser set (no idea what make mine are). Virtually the same as you posted but the horseshoes are not marked, just plated silver (2.5) or gold (2.0), so I'll use the silver. Strangely though, when comparing silver back-to-back with the gold, there is no difference at all? Nor any mention of the non-2.5 parts being not needed. But I've got the info now.
I think it is about to rain, but I should get the crankshaft timing double checked, and possibly remove the old heads, before it does. The new heads look ok, nice and clean internals, and no warping.Guess I'll line them up, fit them then change the belts in situ. Doing it in easy stages like this is keeping me sane while I achieve something!

xsport · 2nd January 2022, 13:27

stewart. i would take heed the advise from post 44. dont dismiss this lightly. ask yourself 1. what camshaft numbers i have ? 2. have i chosen the correct horseshoes from the kit. ? ....

SD1too · 2nd January 2022, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by StewartIngram

... I downloaded a set of instructions for the Laser set (no idea what make mine are).

I have the Laser kit and the tool description table on page 2 is full of errors so be careful.
Your set appears from the photographs to resemble the unbranded kits from China on eBay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StewartIngram

Strangely though, when comparing silver back-to-back with the gold, there is no difference at all?

The 2.5 horseshoes have the two pins approximately equidistant from the tips of the horseshoe. On the 2.0 item they are unmistakably different; one is very close to the tip and the other is much lower than those on the 2.5 tool.

Stewart, I share Stefan's concern about your plans for the camshafts. Are you using your originals or those supplied with the second-hand heads?

Simon

StewartIngram · 2nd January 2022, 15:00

Today has been a successful day on a number of fronts.
Firstly, the timing tool kit; Thanks to a previous post, and my new friend Google, all the tools in the kit are now identified and marked. One anomaly though, mentioned in my last post - the horseshoes came unmarked, apart from the plating colour. The instructions (not necessarily for my make of kit ) suggest the silver ones are the right ones so I'll use them. BUT, both silver & gold are IDENTICAl anyway....
Now, using the locking pin from the kit (I used a similar sized bolt before), and careful manoeuvering from a different position underneath the car, I've locked the crankshaft. And behold, the toothed pulley lines up with its mark, so does the front pulley which is about the right position for the SAFE mark. Wierd, because I had it locked before in that same odd position as the pic shown earlier. I'm happier about that now.
I've progressed to removing the LH cylinder head too. Compared to the 'new' head, it isn't quite as clean internally, but not bad. However all valves are stuck open, so they must be bent. I've not disturbed anything on old or new heads, but the old one has orange paint on the inlet camshaft whilst the new one had a p/no. stamped on it, which seems to refer to the correct engine (thanks to Google).
The pistons and liners also appear undamaged too.
So, I've learnt a few things today (always good) and feel that I am making satisfactory progress.
Next, remove the RH cylinder head & check it, then think about putting the heads back on and doing the rear belts. Looking forward to that.

xsport · 2nd January 2022, 15:03

hi stewart. i have the AST set. mine are marked and colour coded. stamped 2.5 kv6 silver, and 2.0 kv6 gold. whilst they appear to be identical , they are not. looking from your toolkit post , the leading pins on the lower left on one set are indeed higher than on the other set. which means an even further rotated start position for the camshafts, as the pin "hubs" have keyways. dont know how it works for the 190 horseshoes as i have never had any.

StewartIngram · 2nd January 2022, 15:06

I'm still not 100% certain about the camshafts.
My old inlets are painted orange, new seem unpainted, but are LGC106860. So far info suggests these are the same but I'm going to search more.
If the inlets are the same then the exhausts should be?
I have mixed feelings about disturbing the camshafts so won't touch them if I don't have to.
Not rushing into this.

SD1too · 2nd January 2022, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by StewartIngram

I'm still not 100% certain about the camshafts ... new seem unpainted, but are LGC106860. So far info suggests these are the same but I'm going to search more.

I would be wary of LGC 106860 Stewart because, as you discovered from Rimmer's listings, it isn't the current part number. I've also checked the MG Rover parts back as far as the 800 series and that number isn't listed.
Now that you've identified the location of the colour code from your original camshafts, look in the same place on the second-hand item. If there's nothing there, you should be hearing alarm bells ringing.

I recently helped another member replace a damaged camshaft. There's absolutely no need to be concerned about this. You just undo the clamp screws, but in your shoes I would be looking to retain the original camshafts.

Simon

xsport · 2nd January 2022, 20:50

Been trying to check as well stewart. the only reference i can find to LGC106860 inlet and LGC106870 exhaust camshafts were taken from a ZS180 kv6 2.5. as in an add on ebay. other places come up with the same numbers for freelander 1 kv6 and R45 amongst others. the ZS 180 is i think the same camshaft as the rover 75 160 and 177 models. i am not 100 % about this informations credibility , so you must decide for yourself. the camshaft numbers must be different for a reason. i have doubts about the position of the camshaft sensor camlobe on the camshafts on the new heads. you would need to compare your old ones to the new. i know that the ZS had different designs around that front area of the engine bay where the cam sensor is situated on the 75. goodness knows about the freelander cam sensor position. your safest bet would be to swop camshafts for your existing ones .... or take a risk with the new ones , provided they are the same . but that is YOUR decision and only you can make that. can you have a chat with MAT at DMGRS or rimmers ? they are both XPART and could make enquiries for you. ..... hopefully ..

StewartIngram · 3rd January 2022, 09:07

OK I've decided to change the camshafts over. Is it easier to do this with the heads on the block?

2nd January 2022, 20:50	#59
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,643 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	Been trying to check as well stewart. the only reference i can find to LGC106860 inlet and LGC106870 exhaust camshafts were taken from a ZS180 kv6 2.5. as in an add on ebay. other places come up with the same numbers for freelander 1 kv6 and R45 amongst others. the ZS 180 is i think the same camshaft as the rover 75 160 and 177 models. i am not 100 % about this informations credibility , so you must decide for yourself. the camshaft numbers must be different for a reason. i have doubts about the position of the camshaft sensor camlobe on the camshafts on the new heads. you would need to compare your old ones to the new. i know that the ZS had different designs around that front area of the engine bay where the cam sensor is situated on the 75. goodness knows about the freelander cam sensor position. your safest bet would be to swop camshafts for your existing ones .... or take a risk with the new ones , provided they are the same . but that is YOUR decision and only you can make that. can you have a chat with MAT at DMGRS or rimmers ? they are both XPART and could make enquiries for you. ..... hopefully .. Last edited by xsport; 2nd January 2022 at 20:55..

2nd January 2022, 11:39	#52
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 902 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	Thanks for info. Whilst you were posting, Google became my friend again, I downloaded a set of instructions for the Laser set (no idea what make mine are). Virtually the same as you posted but the horseshoes are not marked, just plated silver (2.5) or gold (2.0), so I'll use the silver. Strangely though, when comparing silver back-to-back with the gold, there is no difference at all? Nor any mention of the non-2.5 parts being not needed. But I've got the info now. I think it is about to rain, but I should get the crankshaft timing double checked, and possibly remove the old heads, before it does. The new heads look ok, nice and clean internals, and no warping.Guess I'll line them up, fit them then change the belts in situ. Doing it in easy stages like this is keeping me sane while I achieve something!

2nd January 2022, 13:27	#53
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,643 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	stewart. i would take heed the advise from post 44. dont dismiss this lightly. ask yourself 1. what camshaft numbers i have ? 2. have i chosen the correct horseshoes from the kit. ? ....

2nd January 2022, 15:00	#55
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 902 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	Today has been a successful day on a number of fronts. Firstly, the timing tool kit; Thanks to a previous post, and my new friend Google, all the tools in the kit are now identified and marked. One anomaly though, mentioned in my last post - the horseshoes came unmarked, apart from the plating colour. The instructions (not necessarily for my make of kit ) suggest the silver ones are the right ones so I'll use them. BUT, both silver & gold are IDENTICAl anyway.... Now, using the locking pin from the kit (I used a similar sized bolt before), and careful manoeuvering from a different position underneath the car, I've locked the crankshaft. And behold, the toothed pulley lines up with its mark, so does the front pulley which is about the right position for the SAFE mark. Wierd, because I had it locked before in that same odd position as the pic shown earlier. I'm happier about that now. I've progressed to removing the LH cylinder head too. Compared to the 'new' head, it isn't quite as clean internally, but not bad. However all valves are stuck open, so they must be bent. I've not disturbed anything on old or new heads, but the old one has orange paint on the inlet camshaft whilst the new one had a p/no. stamped on it, which seems to refer to the correct engine (thanks to Google). The pistons and liners also appear undamaged too. So, I've learnt a few things today (always good) and feel that I am making satisfactory progress. Next, remove the RH cylinder head & check it, then think about putting the heads back on and doing the rear belts. Looking forward to that.

2nd January 2022, 15:03	#56
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,643 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	hi stewart. i have the AST set. mine are marked and colour coded. stamped 2.5 kv6 silver, and 2.0 kv6 gold. whilst they appear to be identical , they are not. looking from your toolkit post , the leading pins on the lower left on one set are indeed higher than on the other set. which means an even further rotated start position for the camshafts, as the pin "hubs" have keyways. dont know how it works for the 190 horseshoes as i have never had any.

2nd January 2022, 15:06	#57
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 902 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	I'm still not 100% certain about the camshafts. My old inlets are painted orange, new seem unpainted, but are LGC106860. So far info suggests these are the same but I'm going to search more. If the inlets are the same then the exhausts should be? I have mixed feelings about disturbing the camshafts so won't touch them if I don't have to. Not rushing into this.

3rd January 2022, 09:07	#60
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 902 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	OK I've decided to change the camshafts over. Is it easier to do this with the heads on the block?