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Old 12th January 2022, 09:17   #11
macafee2
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I'm afraid your assumptions, with respect, are wrong in every way Ian. There is little or no "I don't care attitudes" prevalent so far as I can see. People's 'attitudes' vary from the fear of the unknown to the mistrust of the gov's methods and history and the manufactured panic aroused by paid advocates whose fantastical statements are only now being exposed for what they really are - hopeless exaggeration.

If you need evidence of the hyperbole, pick up a newspaper - virtually any one.

According to most sources there are now about 8 million of us who have not taken advantage of the gov's generous offer. Name calling and scandalising by subversion tactics merely goes to give support to those who prefer not to believe the latest suspect Messiahs. Not a promising sight for the future, is it.

when someone posts a comment such as this and it is taken from post 7 "....I would willingly go to work with the virus ......." I have to ask how on earth you think I am wrong and how you can say "There is little or no "I don't care attitudes" prevalent so far as I can see."? What about that comment is caring towards fellow man?

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Old 12th January 2022, 10:02   #12
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when someone posts a comment such as this and it is taken from post 7 "....I would willingly go to work with the virus ......." I have to ask how on earth you think I am wrong and how you can say "There is little or no "I don't care attitudes" prevalent so far as I can see."? What about that comment is caring towards fellow man?

macafee2
It shouldn't be an issue up for discussion really but it is, like I said, only the unjabbed would be at risk would they not? A penniless man would steal food to feed his family and the coercion, threats and direct discrimination against personal choice should be a matter for any government but, they're complicit in these actions. In a situation as described, I'd support anyone forced to go to work with the virus and lie about it, the vaccines work so what's the problem with that? I think we know what the problem is, the vaccines are like painting the Forth bridge and may be a future problem for many people.
It's not wrong for people to expect to be treated equally in a supposed fair society, and that's why the divisions over covid and vaccines will not heal for a long time, I suspect many people will be taking a long look at their lives and changing many things after this is over. I'm lucky, I don't work for Ikea or anyone that discriminates so, it won't be my issue to choose to go to work with the virus. There are too many in society that have taken sides against the unjabbed and those people need to take a long hard look at themselves, the holier than thou attitude that many have had is a problem for them, not people like me. Remember, the sheep run away from the Wolf to end up being slaughtered by the shepherd that looks after them.
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Old 12th January 2022, 10:41   #13
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It shouldn't be an issue up for discussion really but it is, like I said, only the unjabbed would be at risk would they not? A penniless man would steal food to feed his family and the coercion, threats and direct discrimination against personal choice should be a matter for any government but, they're complicit in these actions. In a situation as described, I'd support anyone forced to go to work with the virus and lie about it, the vaccines work so what's the problem with that? I think we know what the problem is, the vaccines are like painting the Forth bridge and may be a future problem for many people.
It's not wrong for people to expect to be treated equally in a supposed fair society, and that's why the divisions over covid and vaccines will not heal for a long time, I suspect many people will be taking a long look at their lives and changing many things after this is over. I'm lucky, I don't work for Ikea or anyone that discriminates so, it won't be my issue to choose to go to work with the virus. There are too many in society that have taken sides against the unjabbed and those people need to take a long hard look at themselves, the holier than thou attitude that many have had is a problem for them, not people like me. Remember, the sheep run away from the Wolf to end up being slaughtered by the shepherd that looks after them.

Whenever someone places a comment on social media there is the chance the comment will be discussed.
Are you suggesting it is ok to put the unjabbed at risk?
I agree the jabbed should be fine but as they too can pass it on, you give it to them, they give it to an unjabbed.
I totally get the stealing to feed scenario but that was not how the comment was put across and in this case, there is the option not to steal.

I think Ikea are wrong. Why should Ikea or any company be put to trouble because their staff choose not be be vaccinated and are then off sick with covid? Everyone should have the choice about what goes into their bodies.
As you can see from my comment, I really cant find a right solution.
If companies get away with reduced sick pay for covid will a "broken leg done skiing" also warrant reduced sick pay? Where does it end? I don't think this is black and white and we need to see if from all angles, employees and employers.


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Old 12th January 2022, 16:02   #14
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when someone posts a comment such as this and it is taken from post 7 "....I would willingly go to work with the virus ......." I have to ask how on earth you think I am wrong and how you can say "There is little or no "I don't care attitudes" prevalent so far as I can see."? What about that comment is caring towards fellow man?

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You cite (post 7) just one you think has a 'don't care attitude' and that it could possibly imply a reference to all. I commented on your 'attitudes'.

You appear, at least to my reading of the relevant post, to believe there is widespread 'don't care about fellow man' attitudes among the approx 8 million non-vaccinated people. Is that all of them or a percentage?

If I misunderstood your emphasis - my bad! That particular interpretation is just one facet of the gradually increasing efforts to denigrate and isolate the substantial number of fellow citizens who have a different point of view.

That's a serious road to travel and could amount to misrepresentation of our 'fellow man'. These 'assumptions' grow rapidly and should be challenged to avoid the depiction of our fellow men.

As I said, if that was my misunderstanding, my bad!
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Old 12th January 2022, 16:41   #15
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You cite (post 7) just one you think has a 'don't care attitude' and that it could possibly imply a reference to all. I commented on your 'attitudes'.

You appear, at least to my reading of the relevant post, to believe there is widespread 'don't care about fellow man' attitudes among the approx 8 million non-vaccinated people. Is that all of them or a percentage?

If I misunderstood your emphasis - my bad! That particular interpretation is just one facet of the gradually increasing efforts to denigrate and isolate the substantial number of fellow citizens who have a different point of view.

That's a serious road to travel and could amount to misrepresentation of our 'fellow man'. These 'assumptions' grow rapidly and should be challenged to avoid the depiction of our fellow men.

As I said, if that was my misunderstanding, my bad!
with a smile, yes your bad.
If there are 8 million unvaccinated my comment was not directed at all 8 million. It was not even directed at 2 people but directed to anyone that knowing they have covid or in deed any other infection such as Norovirus and would still mix with others and perhaps infect them and in the case of covid, be them vaccinated or not.

Putting covid to one side there is a fair bit of "I don't care about others" in this world, fortunately there is an awful lot of caring for others, the RNLI is one example of caring for others.

My posts in one or more threads have said that I do not agree with unvaccinated carers losing their jobs and that I think Ikea are wrong to reduce sick pay for unvaccinated staff that are isolating. see I'm caring about others


I ask again, why should Ikea or any employer be inconvenienced by staff being off sick because they have not been vaccinated and now have covid?

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Old 12th January 2022, 17:14   #16
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and we wonder why the virus spreads. We have people prepared to go and perhaps infect others and I assume not care about those they infect.
I hang my head in disbelief and shame of peoples "I don't care attitude" to their fellow humans.

I think Ikea are wrong, I think care workers losing their jobs because they are not vaccinated is wrong.

macafee2

I’m afraid I am of the same attitude, my company doesn’t pay me if I’m off sick, I’ve worked all the way through this pandemic, I had a week off while I had Covid symptoms and didn’t get paid.

SSP doesn’t even cover my rent let alone all the other living expenses.
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Old 12th January 2022, 20:55   #17
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Whenever someone places a comment on social media there is the chance the comment will be discussed.
Are you suggesting it is ok to put the unjabbed at risk?
I agree the jabbed should be fine but as they too can pass it on, you give it to them, they give it to an unjabbed.
I totally get the stealing to feed scenario but that was not how the comment was put across and in this case, there is the option not to steal.

I think Ikea are wrong. Why should Ikea or any company be put to trouble because their staff choose not be be vaccinated and are then off sick with covid? Everyone should have the choice about what goes into their bodies.
As you can see from my comment, I really cant find a right solution.
If companies get away with reduced sick pay for covid will a "broken leg done skiing" also warrant reduced sick pay? Where does it end? I don't think this is black and white and we need to see if from all angles, employees and employers.


macafee2
The unjabbed know the risk and are willing to take that risk, the vaccinated will still carry and shed the virus just the same, the virus isn't able to be stopped at this time by any group. I've put Ikea on a no buy list because of discrimination, I don't care what the vaccinated people think, I care about a fair society that's being eroded by this virus.
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Old 12th January 2022, 22:00   #18
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This story seems to have been misunderstood judging by the comments on this thread.

IKEA has not cut sick pay for the unvaccinated who self-isolate after contracting covid, but rather for those who've been in close contact with someone who DOES have covid.

This is because vaccinated people coming into close contact with a person who has covid do not need to self-isolate, whereas if you're unvaccinated you do have to self-isolate.

Therefore if you're unvaccinated and have close contact with a covid sufferer you'll be off work for no reason other than that you couldn't be bothered/didn't want to get vaccinated - not because you're ill.

I'm not 100% sure I agree with the decision, but I can see IKEA's point of view. That being, why should they pay full wages to staff who are off work when they needn't be if they'd had the vaccine?
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Old 12th January 2022, 23:35   #19
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The unjabbed know the risk and are willing to take that risk, the vaccinated will still carry and shed the virus just the same, the virus isn't able to be stopped at this time by any group. I've put Ikea on a no buy list because of discrimination, I don't care what the vaccinated people think, I care about a fair society that's being eroded by this virus.
You care about a fair society, what a laughable comment. How on earth does you, infected with covid and mixing with other unjabbed people and passing the infection on, reflect fairness to them? Even putting them at risk is unfair. That is like me saying, Ikea employees know the risk that if they don't get jabbed and have to isolate they will be on reduced sick pay, that is ok because they know the risk. I've already said I think Ikea are wrong. Unjabbed people do indeed know the risk but I doubt they expect or perhaps they know people have an "I don't care about others" attitude and so do expect someone knowing they have covid to mix with them.

If you are unjabbed, do you expect someone, knowing they have covid to mix with you or stay away from you? How would you feel if you ended up in hospital because someone, knowing they had covid mixed with you and passed on the infection to you? Jabbed or unjabbed, I'd be a bit "cheesed" off if that was done to me.

You and others have the right to remain unjabbed, you do not have the right to pass covid on to others and neither do you have the right to put them at risk of catching it.

Any reason you did not not answer the question about Ikea being put to trouble?

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Old 12th January 2022, 23:42   #20
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This story seems to have been misunderstood judging by the comments on this thread.

IKEA has not cut sick pay for the unvaccinated who self-isolate after contracting covid, but rather for those who've been in close contact with someone who DOES have covid.

This is because vaccinated people coming into close contact with a person who has covid do not need to self-isolate, whereas if you're unvaccinated you do have to self-isolate.

Therefore if you're unvaccinated and have close contact with a covid sufferer you'll be off work for no reason other than that you couldn't be bothered/didn't want to get vaccinated - not because you're ill.

I'm not 100% sure I agree with the decision, but I can see IKEA's point of view. That being, why should they pay full wages to staff who are off work when they needn't be if they'd had the vaccine?
It is indeed a good question but then as I have already asked, if you break a leg while skiing, which is a self inflicted injury and one you do not need to suffer, would that in time get you reduced sick pay?

perhaps Saga Lout will answer your question.


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