Tractor mower problem

HarryM1BYT · 21st May 2014, 13:47

Just looking for suggestions, as this has me stumped at the moment.

Its difficult to be able to see very much, due to its drive system being close to the ground, but there is no obvious fault...

It has 7 speeds of progress, set by a control which has P then 1 to 7. P applies the brake and releases the tension on the v belt.

The drive is via two V belts, one from the engine to the middle dual pulley, then one from that to the diff at the back. The dual pulley is controlled by the above mentioned drive speed control, which allows the pulley centre to move up and down to form a variable gear ratio - rather like a moped or a DAF variable gear drive, except the highest gear ratio is set by the 1 to 7.

The foot brake, applies the brake and also releases the tension on the V belt, just as for P.

The engine runs at a constant speed set by a throttle control.

Now for the problem...

It drive around happily, then drive is slowly lost. Press the clutch /brake and it continues again to drive for a while further - which suggests the belt is slipping. However the belts are like new and as near as I can tell the spring applied tension is correct. Obviously its impossible to see what is happening, because it only happens when on the move. There is no sound as if the belt is struggling for grip, it just stops moving and the drive feels good and solid once fixed temporarily by pressing the brake pedal.

HarryM1BYT · 23rd May 2014, 11:03

I think I might have diagnosed the problem....

I am guessing it has to be an issue with the variable speed drive or rather the variable speed drive pulley. The 1 to speed 7, would seem to be a maximum setting, but the variable part can choose itself to use a lower ratio.

When set on the lever to one of the higher speeds, when comes to an up slope and needs to change down, that seems to be when the drive is lost. Pressing the brake/clutch frees something up, and then it drives again.

So my theory is that the sliding back to back double cone in the middle of the pulley, which forms the variable gear, sticks allowing one of the belts to slip.

So my question is, what lubricant if any, is suitable to use on the cone where it is supposed to slide up and down on the centre of the pulley?

billericaymgxpower · 24th May 2014, 09:03

What make is it? We had a system similar to this on a Wolf, believed it to be German. Difficult to operate and control speed so got rid of it. But this had a similar set up as I recall. Could not use any heavy grease but used a lithium based lubricant which seemed ok. I would recommend using internet to obtain service data to make sure though.

HarryM1BYT · 24th May 2014, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by billericaymgxpower

What make is it? We had a system similar to this on a Wolf, believed it to be German. Difficult to operate and control speed so got rid of it. But this had a similar set up as I recall. Could not use any heavy grease but used a lithium based lubricant which seemed ok. I would recommend using internet to obtain service data to make sure though.

Its an ancient MTD YARD-MAN 4145.

There seems to be not much data regarding servicing available. All I have is a circuit diagram. This has been fine for controlling the speed. It will go at anything from a snails pace, upto 10/15mph.

The only bother has been with the long grass duct choking, due to cutting too wet grass - so I removed the duct and collector bin completely last year and then the starter solenoid last week failing. That last problem is now repaired with an MG starter solenoid.

I just need to fix this loss of drive, which has been a worsening issue for the last two seasons and it will then be all good.

billericaymgxpower · 24th May 2014, 09:37

I take it that it is one of the earlier red machines rather then the green and yellow ones. There is a mower forum site shich is quite useful. Sorry not zo good with IT so unsure how to post link but it's there if you type into google. They may even have service manual. Sorry can't help you more as if local I would offer to take a look.

HarryM1BYT · 24th May 2014, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by billericaymgxpower

I take it that it is one of the earlier red machines rather then the green and yellow ones. There is a mower forum site shich is quite useful. Sorry not zo good with IT so unsure how to post link but it's there if you type into google. They may even have service manual. Sorry can't help you more as if local I would offer to take a look.

No, its one of the green yellow ones.

I've found a US web site, nut they seem not that helpful.

What did you type into google?

billericaymgxpower · 24th May 2014, 11:14

Mower forum then put in your make and model. Yours is not that old by sounds of it. Another thought, it's not local to you I know, but I use a mower centre in Essex called Basildon Mower Centre. They specialise in mowers but in particular ride on and lawn tractors. They, I am sure will be able to give advice or expert opinion. I'll have a look for number and add to thread.

HarryM1BYT · 24th May 2014, 11:21

That's helpful - I found a video of the drive system - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1djqjN1v7zM

billericaymgxpower · 24th May 2014, 11:29

01268 523515

HarryM1BYT · 25th May 2014, 08:46

Thanks for that, but I think I have solved it in my head at least, if not the actual problem. I have now managed to find some details on the variable speed pulley unit, it can stick and can cause my symptoms when it sticks.

The tractor is 'garaged' right at the very back of the garden and its too wet after all of this heavy rain to get to at the moment, to investigate further.

21st May 2014, 13:47	#1
HarryM1BYT This is my second home 75 Contemporary SE Mk II 2004 Man. Sal. CDTi 135ps, FBH on red diesel, WinCE6 DD Join Date: May 2010 Location: Leeds Posts: 17,273 Thanks: 2,160 Thanked 2,061 Times in 1,586 Posts	Tractor mower problem Just looking for suggestions, as this has me stumped at the moment. Its difficult to be able to see very much, due to its drive system being close to the ground, but there is no obvious fault... It has 7 speeds of progress, set by a control which has P then 1 to 7. P applies the brake and releases the tension on the v belt. The drive is via two V belts, one from the engine to the middle dual pulley, then one from that to the diff at the back. The dual pulley is controlled by the above mentioned drive speed control, which allows the pulley centre to move up and down to form a variable gear ratio - rather like a moped or a DAF variable gear drive, except the highest gear ratio is set by the 1 to 7. The foot brake, applies the brake and also releases the tension on the V belt, just as for P. The engine runs at a constant speed set by a throttle control. Now for the problem... It drive around happily, then drive is slowly lost. Press the clutch /brake and it continues again to drive for a while further - which suggests the belt is slipping. However the belts are like new and as near as I can tell the spring applied tension is correct. Obviously its impossible to see what is happening, because it only happens when on the move. There is no sound as if the belt is struggling for grip, it just stops moving and the drive feels good and solid once fixed temporarily by pressing the brake pedal. __________________ Harry How To's and items I offer for free, or just to cover the cost of my expenses... http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...40#post1764540 Fix a poor handbrake; DIY ABS diagnostic unit; Loan of the spanner needed to change the CDT belts; free OBD diagnostics +MAF; Correct Bosch MAF cheap; DVB-T install in an ex-hi-line system; DD install with a HK amp; FBH servicing. I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

23rd May 2014, 11:03	#2
HarryM1BYT This is my second home 75 Contemporary SE Mk II 2004 Man. Sal. CDTi 135ps, FBH on red diesel, WinCE6 DD Join Date: May 2010 Location: Leeds Posts: 17,273 Thanks: 2,160 Thanked 2,061 Times in 1,586 Posts	Any experts on variomatic type drives? I think I might have diagnosed the problem.... I am guessing it has to be an issue with the variable speed drive or rather the variable speed drive pulley. The 1 to speed 7, would seem to be a maximum setting, but the variable part can choose itself to use a lower ratio. When set on the lever to one of the higher speeds, when comes to an up slope and needs to change down, that seems to be when the drive is lost. Pressing the brake/clutch frees something up, and then it drives again. So my theory is that the sliding back to back double cone in the middle of the pulley, which forms the variable gear, sticks allowing one of the belts to slip. So my question is, what lubricant if any, is suitable to use on the cone where it is supposed to slide up and down on the centre of the pulley? __________________ Harry How To's and items I offer for free, or just to cover the cost of my expenses... http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...40#post1764540 Fix a poor handbrake; DIY ABS diagnostic unit; Loan of the spanner needed to change the CDT belts; free OBD diagnostics +MAF; Correct Bosch MAF cheap; DVB-T install in an ex-hi-line system; DD install with a HK amp; FBH servicing. I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

24th May 2014, 11:21	#8
HarryM1BYT This is my second home 75 Contemporary SE Mk II 2004 Man. Sal. CDTi 135ps, FBH on red diesel, WinCE6 DD Join Date: May 2010 Location: Leeds Posts: 17,273 Thanks: 2,160 Thanked 2,061 Times in 1,586 Posts	That's helpful - I found a video of the drive system - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1djqjN1v7zM __________________ Harry How To's and items I offer for free, or just to cover the cost of my expenses... http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...40#post1764540 Fix a poor handbrake; DIY ABS diagnostic unit; Loan of the spanner needed to change the CDT belts; free OBD diagnostics +MAF; Correct Bosch MAF cheap; DVB-T install in an ex-hi-line system; DD install with a HK amp; FBH servicing. I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

25th May 2014, 08:46	#10
HarryM1BYT This is my second home 75 Contemporary SE Mk II 2004 Man. Sal. CDTi 135ps, FBH on red diesel, WinCE6 DD Join Date: May 2010 Location: Leeds Posts: 17,273 Thanks: 2,160 Thanked 2,061 Times in 1,586 Posts	Thanks for that, but I think I have solved it in my head at least, if not the actual problem. I have now managed to find some details on the variable speed pulley unit, it can stick and can cause my symptoms when it sticks. The tractor is 'garaged' right at the very back of the garden and its too wet after all of this heavy rain to get to at the moment, to investigate further. __________________ Harry How To's and items I offer for free, or just to cover the cost of my expenses... http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...40#post1764540 Fix a poor handbrake; DIY ABS diagnostic unit; Loan of the spanner needed to change the CDT belts; free OBD diagnostics +MAF; Correct Bosch MAF cheap; DVB-T install in an ex-hi-line system; DD install with a HK amp; FBH servicing. I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

24th May 2014, 09:03	#3
billericaymgxpower Posted a thing or two MG ZT, Nissan Patrol, Volkswagen Touareg, Vauxhall Frontera Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Billericay Essex Posts: 1,024 Thanks: 401 Thanked 174 Times in 138 Posts	What make is it? We had a system similar to this on a Wolf, believed it to be German. Difficult to operate and control speed so got rid of it. But this had a similar set up as I recall. Could not use any heavy grease but used a lithium based lubricant which seemed ok. I would recommend using internet to obtain service data to make sure though.

24th May 2014, 09:37	#5
billericaymgxpower Posted a thing or two MG ZT, Nissan Patrol, Volkswagen Touareg, Vauxhall Frontera Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Billericay Essex Posts: 1,024 Thanks: 401 Thanked 174 Times in 138 Posts	I take it that it is one of the earlier red machines rather then the green and yellow ones. There is a mower forum site shich is quite useful. Sorry not zo good with IT so unsure how to post link but it's there if you type into google. They may even have service manual. Sorry can't help you more as if local I would offer to take a look.

24th May 2014, 11:14	#7
billericaymgxpower Posted a thing or two MG ZT, Nissan Patrol, Volkswagen Touareg, Vauxhall Frontera Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Billericay Essex Posts: 1,024 Thanks: 401 Thanked 174 Times in 138 Posts	Mower forum then put in your make and model. Yours is not that old by sounds of it. Another thought, it's not local to you I know, but I use a mower centre in Essex called Basildon Mower Centre. They specialise in mowers but in particular ride on and lawn tractors. They, I am sure will be able to give advice or expert opinion. I'll have a look for number and add to thread.

24th May 2014, 11:29	#9
billericaymgxpower Posted a thing or two MG ZT, Nissan Patrol, Volkswagen Touareg, Vauxhall Frontera Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Billericay Essex Posts: 1,024 Thanks: 401 Thanked 174 Times in 138 Posts	01268 523515