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Old 12th May 2021, 09:30   #71
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and unfounded fear, not engineering principles.



Simon
Simon, this is wholly incorrect. It is dangerous to suggest also that you have proved mgr and their advisors (who would have been engineers in synthetic rubber manufacturer and production for automotive applications) incorrect.

You have had experience of one vehicle driven by mainly you, with your own service regime and driving style. And I have said it before, I have done precisely the same as you, and in fact, I have never changed a cam belt on any car I have had, except for necessity. But not for one minute would I suggest I proved a schedule to be incorrect or advise others on a critical element.

The drop link is not a critical element of the suspension (in the event of a failure). It is for this reason that an educated guess can be advised at the level of torque to be applied to the drop link.

I urge you to obtain some practical experience with fitting the drop link and you will appreciate where everyone is coming from in its fitment. This has drawn on for weeks now, with only your theoretical arguments against (I am trying to avoid sounding like brian, but I now understand his frustration).

The struts can be fitted with the drop link in place, and is as easy to do as fitting the strut without. On assembley, it would have been done in this way, but with as a complete subframe.assembley.

My current thinking is that you should leave your car at a competent garage, who will have the experience and tools to do the job. At least this way you will have recourse should it fail in service.





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Old 12th May 2021, 10:03   #72
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The struts can be fitted with the drop link in place, and is as easy to do as fitting the strut without. On assembley, it would have been done in this way, but with as a complete subframe.assembley.

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Old 12th May 2021, 10:37   #73
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I expect that they were attached before the spring was fitted so supplied to MGR as part of the strut assembly.

That's one of those things that sounds fine in theory but is rather different in practice. The reason is that a dangling anti-roll bar link prevents the strut being held securely in the vise to compress the spring.

Simon
You missed a trick there Simon. You can actually secure the strut in the vice with the drop link mount facing towards you , easily fit the drop link , torque it to 60nm with a socket then fit the spring . Job done.
It really is that simple Simon, You will have to list it in your lessons learned for next time.
If I change a spring I usually remove/grease and refit the drop link to ensure easier removal should they need changing

Fitting a drop link on the car is more awkward, as others have said cutting thread off makes this achievable and providing it clears the locknut is an acceptable practice. As for tightness providing the tension is within the elastic limit of the bolt torque is not critical , again an acceptable practice To most people they are a fit and forget until they start rattling again with a worn out ball due to either lack of grease or poor manufacture

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Old 12th May 2021, 12:06   #74
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I am following MGR's frequency for cambelt changes, every 90,000 miles. What I don't accept is the six year rule because if they'll last 90,000 miles in five years, why won't they last 90,000 miles in six and a half years?

(Furthermore, I have proved that they will actually last for at least 19 years so the six years is nonsense. It's based upon marketing considerations and unfounded fear, not engineering principles.)



Thank you.

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Old 12th May 2021, 13:06   #75
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I urge you to obtain some practical experience with fitting the drop link ... This has drawn on for weeks now, with only your theoretical arguments against ...
Alan, I am at a loss to understand how you can conclude that I don't have any practical experience of fitting anti-roll bar links, provided that you have read this thread from the beginning and are also aware that I'm replacing both broken springs and renewing the lower arm bushes as well.
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My current thinking is that you should leave your car at a competent garage, who will have the experience and tools to do the job. At least this way you will have recourse should it fail in service.
Thanks for your suggestion but I haven't used a garage for repairs for forty years. Over that time I have acquired experience in virtually everything including automatic gearbox repairs. I have collected a comprehensive stock of the best tools and I buy whatever is necessary to do the job to the highest standards. You don't have to agree with me and I'm not asking you to change the way you do things so there's no need to post in these disrespectful terms.
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You can actually secure the strut in the vice with the drop link mount facing towards you ...
I've just tried your suggestion Steve but the design and size of my vice must be different to yours. With the link fitted, avoiding damage to the welded brackets on the strut is the problem where they bear against the contours of the vice body. With your suggestion I would have only 27mm of the strut body held in the vice which I don't consider enough.

In any case, as you say, this doesn't help when the time comes to remove the link. Shortening the link's thread may work on the nearside but it won't on the offside. I'm saying that a crow's foot attachment is a better choice because it doesn't require shortening the thread and it enables the use of a torque wrench so, if you'll forgive the pun, it kills two birds with one stone!

Simon
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Old 12th May 2021, 13:10   #76
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If I understand what you are saying then you've actually run a cam belt for 19 years.
You must have the luck of the devil.
Hello Jon,

This thread is about the anti-roll bar links. Can I ask you to refrain from posting off-topic please? You will find the answer to your point in the archive but since you have a diesel, are you really interested in this?

Simon
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Old 12th May 2021, 14:30   #77
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Alan, I am at a loss to understand how you can conclude that I don't have any practical experience of fitting anti-roll bar links, provided that you have read this thread from the beginning and are also aware that I'm replacing both broken springs and renewing the lower arm bushes as well.



Thanks for your suggestion but I haven't used a garage for repairs for forty years. Over that time I have acquired experience in virtually everything including automatic gearbox repairs. I have collected a comprehensive stock of the best tools and I buy whatever is necessary to do the job to the highest standards. You don't have to agree with me and I'm not asking you to change the way you do things so there's no need to post in these disrespectful terms.



I've just tried your suggestion Steve but the design and size of my vice must be different to yours. With the link fitted, avoiding damage to the welded brackets on the strut is the problem where they bear against the contours of the vice body. With your suggestion I would have only 27mm of the strut body held in the vice which I don't consider enough.



In any case, as you say, this doesn't help when the time comes to remove the link. Shortening the link's thread may work on the nearside but it won't on the offside. I'm saying that a crow's foot attachment is a better choice because it doesn't require shortening the thread and it enables the use of a torque wrench so, if you'll forgive the pun, it kills two birds with one stone!



Simon
I make.my conclusion of your drop link experience, as.youwould.have had this task.done now.

I wasnt aware that you were replacing two broken springs and the Bush.

But Now I am.eeven more at a loss at your issue of torquing down the drop link. If you are replacing the spring, the strut will.have been removed. Remo al of the strut means youhave full access to.the strut and it can now be adequately torqued to within 2 or 3 per cent of the required torque.

My comment was not meant to be disrespectful, it was meant as genuine advice, as this post was made out of a lack of confidence (which is what I do when I do not have the confidence). It has stretched on so much now, that even with the similar advice of many, youare choosing to refuse. This suggests you no longer have the confidence in others,who have the experience of fitting these items. A third party (a garage) who will have the experience.and more importantly, the liability insurance, would therefore be a better place to go.

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Old 12th May 2021, 19:16   #78
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Hello Jon,

This thread is about the anti-roll bar links. Can I ask you to refrain from posting off-topic please? You will find the answer to your point in the archive but since you have a diesel, are you really interested in this?

Simon
If you consider your posts to be topical then you'll find the item I mentioned in one of your own posts.-( Post 70.--If you don't want comment on things you say it would pay you not to post them.--I shall now go away and smooth down my feathers.---)---lol.

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Old 13th May 2021, 06:24   #79
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I've just tried your suggestion Steve but the design and size of my vice must be different to yours. With the link fitted, avoiding damage to the welded brackets on the strut is the problem where they bear against the contours of the vice body. With your suggestion I would have only 27mm of the strut body held in the vice which I don't consider enough.

Simon
You could rotate the strut to to the left or the right till the locating lug was within the vice jaws putting the mount to the left or right . As long as it at the front of the vice to clear the bench as the drop link longer than strut
Really You don’t even need it in the vice, you could have just compressed your spring Sat the spring on the floor and positioned your strut through the spring ,the way I changed a front spring on a VW a couple of months ago , Either way you you had the opportunity to easily fit the drop links while the spring was removed

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Old 14th May 2021, 06:26   #80
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I cant recommend a particular make of drop link, Though I am happy to tell you how I have got around the problems.
where the thread is too long I have cut the excess of with a 1mm cutting disc then using a taper cone cutter make a quick buzz down the top of the threads making starting the nut a breeze.
I have a set of thin walled 3/8 drive crows feet spanners which are fantastic for holding the hex on the threaded part of the Joint.
I have a set of American made thin "S" spanners and a set of offset crank spanners from the same tool company these are about half the thickness of a UK sold Spanner.
I remember working at three Gyms that had 25 spin bikes each the boys needed some very walled spanners this was achieved with the bench grinder and we ground three sets of spanners made by Britool down until they were only 2.5mm thick this way each engineer had the correct tools to work on the spin Bikes the boys even went as far as plastic coating the handle of the spin bike tools in an orange covering making it easy to identify their hook pullers and bottom Bracket spanners even their 1.2 meter screwdrivers easy to find in there boxes. We even ground down a box of M8 threaded nuts to half their original size just so it was much simpler to reassemble one of the areas of the Bike.

The correct tool for the job makes the task much simpler.
Keep up the good work.
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