Engine intermittant starting

[skinnyL]

75 v6 2.5 Tourer

Engine failed to start, Jumped leaded off other car, started after 15minutes or so, this happened on 3 different days. Then tried again then clicked as though the starter motor failing so gave this a tap with a heavy spanner, this happened 3 or 4 times so obtained a second hand starter from 'Mickyboy', my garage fitted the starter and now says it is still the same.

The problem now seems to be overfueling/lack of petrol as the engine will start and when you stop it and try it again the starter tries and tries and after 6 turns the engine fires up and runs although sluggishly and there is a strong smell of petrol.

Any ideas what could be the problem guys!

For further info the same garage replaced the o/s/f spring which had broken and the n/s/f Drop link 31/03/21 and these faults were picked up on an M.O.T after the car came off a SORN after 7 months.

Many thanks.

[COLVERT]

You've changed the mechanical bits but no result.
From what you describe you have fuel but no spark.

( Leads or coils.-----)

[skinnyL]

Thanks for that Colvert.

[SD1too]

Hello James,

I see that your car was off the road for seven months up to the end of March. What's the battery's condition? It's possible that the voltage drop during cranking is affecting the ECM. I'd start by charging it for at least 24 hours using a mains powered smart charger. If you've fitted a new battery, make sure that's fully charged using the same method.

Simon

[skinnyL]

Hi Simon

The battery was on a continual trickle charge whilst in the garage and the car started first go as normal when I took it out after the 7 months. When this problem started I took the car to have the battery tested and the result was, Good battery, Volts =12.65. Measured =622A .
Starter Test= Cranking normal 11,219.

The car ran as normal for a week or so and then this starting problem occurred. Now wondering if the ecb? could be could be soaked so I shall go up to my local garage and check this today.

Thank you

[Ducati750cc]

It would be best when seeking a solution for a car not starting, to highlight one of the following.


1) It won't start due to not cranking.


2) It cranks OK but won't start.


Thus narrowing down the problem and possibly speeding up replies.


With either 1 or 2 above, or in fact for diagnosing any faults where electricity is concerned, it is essential to start with a known, good condition, fully charged battery, fully charged meaning at least 12 hrs on a smart charger.


With good battery cable connections and good battery negative to engine and chassis connections.


So many people try to trace faults with a battery that " looks fully charged " , the headlights look nice and bright, but won't perform under load and in doing so adds time and frustration and sometimes money to the job at hand.


For example, the car won't start, the starter motor makes clicking noises ( but driver doesn't say if it is a single click or rapid clicking ) being the description, feasible suggestions, solenoid end cap contacts, solenoid itself, poor connections on the starter motor circuit, starter motor.


Driver decides starter motor is the best way out, fits one, same problem, checks and cleans all battery to starter motor connections, still the same, fits a new battery, it bursts into life.


What was the cause of the noise given the drivers actions, simple the first battery was duff, enough energy to move the solenoid plunger in, but as soon as the contacts closed and the motor started to draw current, the voltage dropped releasing the solenoid, as soon as the contacts opened, the same happens, rinse and repeat, so the driver spends unnecessarily on a new starter motor.



This isn't a cure for your problem, obviously, but simply an example of how being methodical and following a good testing regime is better than presuming.


When you say " ..... the engine fires up and runs although sluggishly and there is a strong smell of petrol. "


Is the strong smell of petrol from the exhaust, what colour are the exhaust gasses, how long will it run, will it reach max. revs, does it feel if there is a miss-fire, difficult sometimes with a V6, when it starts, will it idle or has it got to be kept running with a bit of throttle ?



Have the garage put it on the exhaust gas analyser to confirm there are excess hydrocarbons in the exhaust gasses, have the codes been read, if so, what were, are they, have you popped a couple of plugs out to look at their colour?


If there are excess hydrocarbons this can be caused by excess fuel, insufficient air, or in some instances miss-fires caused by ignition problems and a very unusual one, though I doubt in your case, of stale degraded fuel.

[skinnyL]

WOW, really all those things to check out and me not being a mechanic, although I should have been when I bought this Rover as I have had so many problems with it and it has cost quite a bit to keep it on the road, but I love it, it looks great and drives not too badly, normally! and I do not want to scrap it.

I just tried explain what I knew at the moment and to keep things simple as I thought it would be a simple problem to resolve due to not starting, i.e. battery (first thought) had checked by 2 different car repairers, 1 Halfords, and 1 car electrical repairer, as not sure of Halfords, and all ok.
Then the next morning it developed a SINGLE click to which I attributed to be a faulty Starter motor, banged it, car started. Next day same click, so banged it and engine started, so thought, i,i, change the starter, DRMG did not have one, but I managed to locate one on here from 'Mickyboy' thanks Mickyboy. Took car to my local garage for it to be fitted and apparently still the same problem, but starting after 2/3 turns of the key and then quite sluggish running, with no need for throttle, with a strong smell of petrol.

I have been to the garage today to check for water near the EBU? dry as a bone on both sides. Started engine first go no problem! Will see how it goes. As I stated I went for the obvious after having them checked out and I also thought about the stale fuel as it had been sitting for 7 months, but as it had been running for a couple of weeks this was discounted.
As stated I am not a mechanic nor do I do anything other than normal, like sorting out a very sodden front carpet with removing the seats and securing the pipes from the roof drains, things like that, but not engines.

So I suppose we need clever people like you to keep us in our place as we are the ones without common sense.

Thanks for the information.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by skinnyL

... it developed a SINGLE click to which I attributed to be a faulty Starter motor, banged it, car started.

Hi James,

A single click normally indicates worn solenoid contacts (I've had this). The solenoid is moving correctly but it isn't able to complete the circuit to the starter motor, hence your engine doesn't turn over. In these circumstances "banging it" isn't the right response. That is effective only if the solenoid isn't moving.

... so thought, i,i, change the starter ... I managed to locate one ... from 'Mickyboy' ... apparently still the same problem ...

Mickyboy deals in used parts doesn't he? I'm sure that he believed that it was in working order but can you be sure ...? It's better to diagnose the problem with what you've got and repair it rather than randomly changing parts in the hope that you'll be lucky.

"The same problem" being that you hear a single click and the starter doesn't turn the engine over? Can you confirm please James. If your garage can't get to the bottom of this then they're not much use.

Simon

[planenut]

James, you will now be aware that a lot of the comments on here are well meaning, but not helpful. Some of us have found a solution to a problem in the past and to that individual, it will always be the answer. How we describe a noise or effect is again our own interpretation. Try to use one of our gurus and let them guide you.

[skinnyL]

Hi Simon,

Yes I was at the garage this morning and I tried starting the car and it fired up straight away first go, so I don't know. I think I shall give it a good run after the garage has completed fitting a top mount and bearing to the o/s/f.

No, I do not have full confidence in the garage doing work other than m.o.t.s and servicing but I am over a barrel here as not a lot of garages work on our cars.

Many thanks