HAND BRAKE.....hopeless - Page 2

Arctic · 18th December 2018, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 6

Well thanks for all the replies,,,,I have done most of all that has been suggested and adjustment has been done as per the how to's.As mentioned new drums and shoes the only thing I can think of the shoes must be of very poor quality,but what make they are I do not have a Scooby.What bought it to a head was yesterday on the ferry ready to offload we were on the ramp when the ramp was lowered the hand brake would not hold the car even when pulled up as far as I could.

Quote:

So I think the next thing is to swop the shoes with a known good quality set and start again.

Hi John.
First undo the front cable so nut it at the end of the thread, then remove the rear wheels adjust the knurled nut by about 3 clicks on each side see if that makes a difference, sometimes you/we may think because there is a drag on the drum it will grind when we drive it but it wont, if it did just back it of one click.

Remember up tightens it, down will loosen it

Number 6 · 18th December 2018, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arctic

Hi John.
First undo the front cable so nut it at the end of the thread, then remove the rear wheels adjust the knurled nut by about 3 clicks on each side see if that makes a difference, sometimes you/we may think because there is a drag on the drum it will grind when we drive it but it wont, if it did just back it of one click.

Remember up tightens it, down will loosen it

Ok Steve,will give that one more go,I have done it so many times now I can do it in my sleep........And if that fails I will look at new shoes

What I dont understand is I can get the H/B adjusted so I get 3 clicks and with a little more effort upto 4/5 clicks but it still wont hold,and no way can you lock the rear wheels using the H/B even on gravel..

roverbarmy · 18th December 2018, 10:40

Sometimes, shoes can glaze. I always roughen them with emery cloth and also on the inside of the drum contact area. I find it best to have both rear wheels off the ground when adjusting and have an assistant (her indoors) in the car to apply and release the handbrake during adjustment, to centralise the shoes, or you can get a false "lock" as one shoe contacts the drum. When centralised, both shoes should contact at the same time, giving less cable movement. Front cable nut on lever also needs to be slackened off (not too loose) and can be reset once shoes are at optimal setting.

They can be a PITA but actually work really well once sorted. I can lock both back wheels! There is hope and light at the end of the tunnel!
Mike

Avulon · 18th December 2018, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 6

Ok Steve,will give that one more go,I have done it so many times now I can do it in my sleep........And if that fails I will look at new shoes

What I dont understand is I can get the H/B adjusted so I get 3 clicks and with a little more effort upto 4/5 clicks but it still wont hold,and no way can you lock the rear wheels using the H/B even on gravel..

I'd suggest that you check the brake balance by looking at the compensator - it sounds like the adjustment is uneven. Expose the compensator and take a look at it with the handbrake on tight and see if it is equally pulling on both secondary cables. If it is then youre probllem is either that the cables are seizing (i.e. not fully applying the brakes) or that the shoes are glazed - See previous comment on deglazing.

An afterthought - and maybe a dumb question - but when you fitted the discs you did clean both the disk and drum of all transport oil and coating using brake cleaner didn't you?

Heddy · 18th December 2018, 10:47

Yes, a PITA. Lost count how many times I adjusted mine on the Mk1. I can't add anything to my earlier post, there just isn't anything to prevent the h/brake working, except maybe contamination of the drum/shoes. It's unlikely the shoes are not concentric in relation to the drum resulting in partial contact, but yes, maybe try another set of shoes.

Number 6 · 18th December 2018, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avulon

I'd suggest that you check the brake balance by looking at the compensator - it sounds like the adjustment is uneven. Expose the compensator and take a look at it with the handbrake on tight and see if it is equally pulling on both secondary cables. If it is then youre probllem is either that the cables are seizing (i.e. not fully applying the brakes) or that the shoes are glazed - See previous comment on deglazing.

An afterthought - and maybe a dumb question - but when you fitted the discs you did clean both the disk and drum of all transport oil and coating using brake cleaner didn't you?

Yep Made sure that I did that using brake cleaner...

ceedy · 18th December 2018, 15:24

I've found that the actual diam of various makes of shoes does vary so until "run in" you may not get full contact.

But since i installed TRW shoes the handbrake is far far better than previously setups , and the cars had modded comps in for over 10 years, up to and now inc the mini one .

C.

bl52krz · 18th December 2018, 16:07

Before you buy any new shoes, just try this. Pull handbrake up 3/4 notches, start car and drive at around 7/10 mph for about 50 yards,, gently pulling the hand brake up until, hopefully, you are beginning to get the engine labouring. Re adjust hand brake as per Artics post. Might work, if no, cost nothing. New shoes are probably required.

roverbarmy · 18th December 2018, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceedy

I've found that the actual diam of various makes of shoes does vary so until "run in" you may not get full contact.

C.

"Quality" spares!

COLVERT · 18th December 2018, 18:37

Maybe once a month or so I do this. Drive with the hand brake fairly hard on for a couple of hundred yards. Just before MOT time I do this more frequently.

It polishes off the rust that forms inside the drums The rust forms because the shoes are never used in the way that shoes are used on a car with drums brakes. The parts never move one against the other.

Doing this also makes the shoes a better and better fit inside the drums and gets rid of the rust particles that act as a form of dry lubricant.

There is MORE friction between POLISHED surfaces than surfaces that have been roughed up with emery or sand paper.

When I first had the car it had this non holding hand brake. Since using this regular bedding process I can lock both back wheels even on the move.---Never had the slightest problem in all of its MOT's.

18th December 2018, 10:40	#13
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,050 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	Sometimes, shoes can glaze. I always roughen them with emery cloth and also on the inside of the drum contact area. I find it best to have both rear wheels off the ground when adjusting and have an assistant (her indoors) in the car to apply and release the handbrake during adjustment, to centralise the shoes, or you can get a false "lock" as one shoe contacts the drum. When centralised, both shoes should contact at the same time, giving less cable movement. Front cable nut on lever also needs to be slackened off (not too loose) and can be reset once shoes are at optimal setting. They can be a PITA but actually work really well once sorted. I can lock both back wheels! There is hope and light at the end of the tunnel! Mike __________________ Oil in my veins!

18th December 2018, 15:24	#17
ceedy This is my second home All Trophy Blue ,ZT260#50 , ZT CDTI Auto, ZR105+ and 1.8T Firefrost spoiling the Set . Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Nr Sherborne But in Somerset.. Posts: 6,076 Thanks: 916 Thanked 1,214 Times in 768 Posts	I've found that the actual diam of various makes of shoes does vary so until "run in" you may not get full contact. But since i installed TRW shoes the handbrake is far far better than previously setups , and the cars had modded comps in for over 10 years, up to and now inc the mini one . C. __________________ The Three Bloo's Wifey's Zr105, MY CDTI & 260 #50 and Number One sons 1.8T in Firefrost When I were a lad Zero to 142 in 10.25 secs at the Pod on my Blown Norton. 210 Kart Champ in 70's

18th December 2018, 16:07	#18
bl52krz This is my second home Rover 75 cdt club + Rover 2.5 KV6 Conni SE Join Date: May 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 11,394 Thanks: 6,587 Thanked 2,262 Times in 1,729 Posts	Before you buy any new shoes, just try this. Pull handbrake up 3/4 notches, start car and drive at around 7/10 mph for about 50 yards,, gently pulling the hand brake up until, hopefully, you are beginning to get the engine labouring. Re adjust hand brake as per Artics post. Might work, if no, cost nothing. New shoes are probably required. __________________ Great Barr, Birmingham.

18th December 2018, 10:47	#15
Heddy This is my second home None Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: None Posts: 5,556 Thanks: 465 Thanked 1,161 Times in 924 Posts	Yes, a PITA. Lost count how many times I adjusted mine on the Mk1. I can't add anything to my earlier post, there just isn't anything to prevent the h/brake working, except maybe contamination of the drum/shoes. It's unlikely the shoes are not concentric in relation to the drum resulting in partial contact, but yes, maybe try another set of shoes.

18th December 2018, 18:37	#20
COLVERT This is my second home R75 Saloon. Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: France/or Devon. Posts: 14,003 Thanks: 3,851 Thanked 2,167 Times in 1,816 Posts	Maybe once a month or so I do this. Drive with the hand brake fairly hard on for a couple of hundred yards. Just before MOT time I do this more frequently. It polishes off the rust that forms inside the drums The rust forms because the shoes are never used in the way that shoes are used on a car with drums brakes. The parts never move one against the other. Doing this also makes the shoes a better and better fit inside the drums and gets rid of the rust particles that act as a form of dry lubricant. There is MORE friction between POLISHED surfaces than surfaces that have been roughed up with emery or sand paper. When I first had the car it had this non holding hand brake. Since using this regular bedding process I can lock both back wheels even on the move.---Never had the slightest problem in all of its MOT's.