!!!!!!! Bad fuel (diesel) - Page 2

James.uk · 9th July 2011, 13:41

A diesel will certainly run on it's own engine oil if the oil can get in the inlet, and it would rev its heart out untill either the oil was all used up or the air inlet was blocked off..

There were a couple of instances of this happening on the Peugeot-Citroen forums...

All a diesel needs is fuel and compression ----

...

I think the " water in fuel" issue was a red Herring in this case...

...

craig8661 · 9th July 2011, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by James.uk

A diesel will certainly run on it's own engine oil if the oil can get in the inlet, and it would rev its heart out untill either the oil was all used up or the air inlet was blocked off..

There were a couple of instances of this happening on the Peugeot-Citroen forums...

All a diesel needs is fuel and compression ----

...

I think the " water in fuel" issue was a red Herring in this case...

...

add renaults to the list as well we brought a laguna diesel with a blown turbo oil going in throu the inlet and was only down to the blokes quick thinking of dropping into a gear and standing on the brakes they stoped it before it did any damige

wraymond · 9th July 2011, 16:53

I believe the 'water in the fuel' is a rather rouge red herring. The problem, I think, is called 'phasing'. I'm not a mechanic, but this happens occasionally when, as another poster said, there is compression and a degree of heat and spark (the 'fire triangle'). It won't stop until it siezes or falls apart and loses compression. Don't jump on me, as I said I'm not a mechanic and I've only seen this once in a rather long life. A GPO van in Romford did it and my last view of it from the safety of a phone box was the driver bashing seven bells out of it with the jack! Very scary, with all the effects the OP mentions. Eventually it blew up with bits flying everywhere. You were very lucky that you were not driving and were able to safely escape. Sorry for your loss, and I suspect the garage may escape.

James.uk · 9th July 2011, 18:03

No spark required on a diesel engine, the high compression generates so much heat that when the fuel is injected it self ignites..

That's it why you cant stop a runaway diesel by switching it off.. You have got to either stall the engine somehow, cut off the fuel supply, or block the air intake.. And standing over an engine that is red-lining whilst you remove the air filter so you can block the air intake takes a massive amount of courage.... or stupidity...

lmho...

In this instance i think the turbo seals have gone allowing oil to leak through to the air flow side, thus feeding the engine... But that is just a guess really....

...

craig8661 · 9th July 2011, 18:34

also before any one says that turbos never fail mine did on the 75 was lucky tho it was the exaust side

James.uk · 9th July 2011, 18:41

My car also had a new turbo fitted 3 months before I bought it, bill was in the cars history folder. £850 ...

Dunno why it failed. The prev lady owner just said it was leaking oil.. Jules thought it may have been due to the PCV being badly gunged up, he replaced it..

...

craig8661 · 9th July 2011, 19:43

well when i brought mine it was smoking like mad at tick over and then blacked every one out .

i took the pcv of and it was blocked solid and was the filter type.

i fitted the filterless type and the smoke cleared up at idle but was smoking heavy at 2,000 rpm my turbo had blown the seals on the exaust side i think the pcv can cause turbo problems and also relate to a turbo blowing its seals and the engine running on its own oil

mark d3 · 9th July 2011, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by James.uk

Assuming a % of water content was in the mix it still should not have done much damage? Any water injected would have been turned to steam on combustion and ejected out of the exhaust ports, I can't see enough water staying in to cause hydraulic lockup?

The engine would only run if a high % of fuel was getting through..

Too high a water content and the engine would just stop?

Innit??
...

a engine will not compress water,it will instead throw a conrod,the reason it started may have been diesel already in the line either way this is a expensive repair if the AA have said its water its highly likely it will be,sadly may be another 75 written off ,if its proved the garage is at fault they must pay for repairs

James.uk · 10th July 2011, 15:25

Hi Mark. I am aware that water is incompressible.

But I cant see enough water getting sprayed via an injector, remaining in a cylinder in large enough quantities to cause lock-up...

I don't believe that could happen...

...

trikey · 10th July 2011, 15:33

One of my local garages...

Thank God I use real fuel!!!

9th July 2011, 18:34	#15
craig8661 Posted a thing or two rover 75 tourer cdt Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Chesterfield Posts: 1,924 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	also before any one says that turbos never fail mine did on the 75 was lucky tho it was the exaust side __________________ http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...y%20se/sig.jpg spoilt as i own a cdt auto connoisseur se cdt auto member 829 mods so far synergy 2 heated washer jets cant really add anything else as it has it all lol

9th July 2011, 19:43	#17
craig8661 Posted a thing or two rover 75 tourer cdt Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Chesterfield Posts: 1,924 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	well when i brought mine it was smoking like mad at tick over and then blacked every one out . i took the pcv of and it was blocked solid and was the filter type. i fitted the filterless type and the smoke cleared up at idle but was smoking heavy at 2,000 rpm my turbo had blown the seals on the exaust side i think the pcv can cause turbo problems and also relate to a turbo blowing its seals and the engine running on its own oil __________________ http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...y%20se/sig.jpg spoilt as i own a cdt auto connoisseur se cdt auto member 829 mods so far synergy 2 heated washer jets cant really add anything else as it has it all lol

10th July 2011, 15:33	#20
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,766 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	One of my local garages... Thank God I use real fuel!!! __________________ Lest we forget..

9th July 2011, 13:41	#11
James.uk Passed Away 2002 Pale Blue. Rover 75 CDTi Connoisseur auto. 170K miles Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Near the M67. Posts: 14,509 Thanks: 199 Thanked 585 Times in 397 Posts	A diesel will certainly run on it's own engine oil if the oil can get in the inlet, and it would rev its heart out untill either the oil was all used up or the air inlet was blocked off.. There were a couple of instances of this happening on the Peugeot-Citroen forums... All a diesel needs is fuel and compression ---- ... I think the " water in fuel" issue was a red Herring in this case... ...

9th July 2011, 16:53	#13
wraymond This is my second home 75 Auto 2.5 SE Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Westcliff on Sea Posts: 5,193 Thanks: 423 Thanked 1,680 Times in 1,014 Posts	I believe the 'water in the fuel' is a rather rouge red herring. The problem, I think, is called 'phasing'. I'm not a mechanic, but this happens occasionally when, as another poster said, there is compression and a degree of heat and spark (the 'fire triangle'). It won't stop until it siezes or falls apart and loses compression. Don't jump on me, as I said I'm not a mechanic and I've only seen this once in a rather long life. A GPO van in Romford did it and my last view of it from the safety of a phone box was the driver bashing seven bells out of it with the jack! Very scary, with all the effects the OP mentions. Eventually it blew up with bits flying everywhere. You were very lucky that you were not driving and were able to safely escape. Sorry for your loss, and I suspect the garage may escape.

9th July 2011, 18:03	#14
James.uk Passed Away 2002 Pale Blue. Rover 75 CDTi Connoisseur auto. 170K miles Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Near the M67. Posts: 14,509 Thanks: 199 Thanked 585 Times in 397 Posts	No spark required on a diesel engine, the high compression generates so much heat that when the fuel is injected it self ignites.. That's it why you cant stop a runaway diesel by switching it off.. You have got to either stall the engine somehow, cut off the fuel supply, or block the air intake.. And standing over an engine that is red-lining whilst you remove the air filter so you can block the air intake takes a massive amount of courage.... or stupidity... lmho... In this instance i think the turbo seals have gone allowing oil to leak through to the air flow side, thus feeding the engine... But that is just a guess really.... ...

9th July 2011, 18:41	#16
James.uk Passed Away 2002 Pale Blue. Rover 75 CDTi Connoisseur auto. 170K miles Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Near the M67. Posts: 14,509 Thanks: 199 Thanked 585 Times in 397 Posts	My car also had a new turbo fitted 3 months before I bought it, bill was in the cars history folder. £850 ... Dunno why it failed. The prev lady owner just said it was leaking oil.. Jules thought it may have been due to the PCV being badly gunged up, he replaced it.. ...

10th July 2011, 15:25	#19
James.uk Passed Away 2002 Pale Blue. Rover 75 CDTi Connoisseur auto. 170K miles Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Near the M67. Posts: 14,509 Thanks: 199 Thanked 585 Times in 397 Posts	Hi Mark. I am aware that water is incompressible. But I cant see enough water getting sprayed via an injector, remaining in a cylinder in large enough quantities to cause lock-up... I don't believe that could happen... ...