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Old 18th August 2018, 19:49   #1
Matt G
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Default MG ZT 190PS with 180 (177) timing is thus possible

Hi there

Has anyone heard of this happening before? I have a 2004 2.5 v6 190 plus MG ZT and I am just in the process of changing the timing belts on the car , itís all stripped back ready to do.. I have just gone to put the locking tools in place before removing the belt to check alignments , and found the timing seems to be set for the locking 180 plates and not the 190 plates. Also the rear cam belts seem to be slightly out as well.

Has anyone heard of this before and likewise is there anyway of checking the engine to confirm it is a 190 or 180 unit. It is the original engine, and I am sure stranger things have happened during manufacturing previously.

If it is just a previous error then I take it re aligning from scratch will resolve the problem, likewise if I set it up for the 190 timings and then subsequently find out it is 180 engine, will I do any damage to the engine?

Any help most appreciated.

Matt
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Old 18th August 2018, 20:03   #2
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Could it be that the engine (or just cylinder heads) in your 190 has been replaced with that/those from a 180 (auto) at some point I wonder?
(a 180 is just a detuned 190 for the autobox as far as I recall)

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Old 18th August 2018, 20:13   #3
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What is the engine number code?
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Old 18th August 2018, 20:26   #4
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Originally Posted by Phil-T4 View Post
What is the engine number code?
Might be interesting to look at the date code on the belts too, it wouldn't be the first time I'd seen replacement belts done with aftermarket tools, and timed up incorrectly
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Old 18th August 2018, 20:34   #5
Matt G
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Thanks for the info so far, most appreciated

I am not aware that the heads have ever been changed, in fact I am under the illusion from the 2 previous owners that the timing belt has never been changed at all.


The engine number is 25k4fp58 253867
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Old 18th August 2018, 23:42   #6
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25K4FP58 is a 190 (manual trans) so it is the correct engine according to that.
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Old 19th August 2018, 09:16   #7
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Just a thought. Could it be the timing is set correctly but the locking tool is not the right one?


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Old 19th August 2018, 09:32   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt G View Post
Also the rear cam belts seem to be slightly out as well.
Are you 100% sure you have the 190 tools as most kits dont actually have them although they say 190 on the packaging, the Laser kit is one that springs to mind as being wrong.

Yes your engine type FP58 is the correct one for the model year and the heads will also have 190 written on them (behind the pulley covers).
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Old 19th August 2018, 09:44   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt G View Post
I have just gone to put the locking tools in place before removing the belt to check alignments ...
Hello Matt,

Out of curiosity I did that too and, like you, the result was not what I expected! Since my engine had always run faultlessly I abandoned the idea and carried on with the belt replacement. When you fit your new front belt using the 190 tools your camshafts will be timed correctly and that’s all you need be concerned about.
Quote:
... the timing seems to be set for the locking 180 plates and not the 190 plates.
There aren’t any specific 180 locking tools. There are only three versions: the Rover 2.0 & 2.5 KV6 and MG 190.
Quote:
Also the rear cam belts seem to be slightly out as well.
We’ve all found this to be the case. When you’ve done the front belt you will have to remove the flywheel locking pin and move the engine very slightly in order the align the rear sprocket notches. The rear holding tools can then be fitted.

Matt; can I take this opportunity to mention a couple of important things I learnt when doing mine?
Pay particular attention to the tensioner and idler pulleys and replace them if running roughly.
On reassembly, it is vital that you set the position of the tensioner pulley according to INA’s service information (the OEM manufacturers of this pulley). This is not mentioned in RAVE or Haynes. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions and I’ll be glad to help.

Simon
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Old 19th August 2018, 10:24   #10
Matt G
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Firstly, Thank you all for the really positive and most useful info.

To confirm my locking kit is the sealey set and yes I have the standard 2.5v6 locking plates and the additional mg190 plates too. As the rear cambelt pulleys did not align (by about 2 belt teeth) I decided to check the alignments before slackening the belt.

Basically in the safe position the 180 locking plates fits perfectly and the 190 ones did not suggesting it had been timed in that manner.

Thanks for the engine number info and also heads stamping info, Iíll check that tonight if time after work.

Iíll keep you updated in case this occurs to anyone else, in the future. But basically the plan is too.

1.)Mark up the belt and pulleys in the current timing config, so if I am wrong or make a mistake I have a reference point to go back too.
2.) slacken the belt main belt and align the camshaft with the 190 plates and then I am hoping the rear belts will re align those couple of degrees and restore faith. If not back to the drawing board.

I have heard it is easier to replace the rear belts first using relative belt position rather than notches and re tensioning off the main cambelt exhaust camshaft.

Also thanks for the info about the belt tensioning pulley. Iíll cross check that too when 5 time comes.

Last question am I right in think, that with this engine if miss timed in the wrong timing position (either 180 or 190) there is no chance of damaging the engine I.e the valves hitting the pistons?

Regards

Matt
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