Clutch plate - strange marks - Page 2

COLVERT · 13th August 2020, 19:26

Can't agree with the EXCESSIVE bit in the post above.

Worn away rivets are excessive.---

However-------those splines. Lube, Lube, lube.

PS. Sticky sort of lube too.--

roverbarmy · 13th August 2020, 19:35

Have a look at the "shadow" marks on the fixings between the splined part and the friction plates. It looks like there may be movement there. Are the clutch fingers (where the thrust bearing touches) even in height from the splined centre? If there are springs on the other side, are they loose?

ADO282 · 13th August 2020, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by COLVERT

Can't agree with the EXCESSIVE bit in the post above.

Worn away rivets are excessive.---

However-------those splines. Lube, Lube, lube.

PS. Sticky sort of lube too.--

Jon, if you compare the friction material at "7 O'clock" to the rest of the disc, it is visibly more worn which would suggest an uneven clamping load.

This would explain why Simon was experiencing clutch judder, this is the first time I've seen a friction plate without torsion springs though...........the wonders of modern flywheel technology I suppose

mh007 · 13th August 2020, 20:05

I've seen quite a few centre plates without springs when a DMF is fitted

The wear/friction marks are quite normal too.

COLVERT · 13th August 2020, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADO282

Jon, if you compare the friction material at "7 O'clock" to the rest of the disc, it is visibly more worn which would suggest an uneven clamping load.

This would explain why Simon was experiencing clutch judder, this is the first time I've seen a friction plate without torsion springs though...........the wonders of modern flywheel technology I suppose

I can see what you are saying but wouldn't the clamping load be in a different part of the plate every time you change gear ??

I would tend to think the material variations in strength of the plate could give that effect simply by one having a slightly higher wear rate than the other over time.--

COLVERT · 13th August 2020, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh007

I've seen quite a few centre plates without springs when a DMF is fitted

The wear/friction marks are quite normal too.

I think that the addition of springs was there to give a greater cushioning effect to the rigid parts.

Would also stop metal fatigue too.---

Blink · 14th August 2020, 15:03

Thanks for all the replies chaps.

Re rust on the splines - that might be because the car hasn't been used for so long. It's been nowhere at all for well over a year (and some) but the judder was there for years before that.

Re the plate - the above pics aren't very clear because direct flash has bounced straight back at the camera, hence its difficult to tell what's wear and what isn't. I'll take some properly lit pics of the old plate alongside the brand new one and post them here.

More later (probably tomorrow).

Blink · 14th August 2020, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blink

... I'll take some properly lit pics of the old plate alongside the brand new one and post them here.

Here are some decent pics, although a lot of detail has still been lost in the upload so you won't be able to see as much as I can see (the original files are far superior).

The LH plate is a Borg & Beck, no idea who made the RH one but it's the factory original.

1. Gearbox side

2. Flywheel side

Blowups of centre section.

1a. Gearbox side

2a. Flywheel side

There's a ring of scoring on the used plate just inside the rivets - it's on both sides of the plate. It's also on the pressure plate surface, but not on the flywheel.

Blink · 14th August 2020, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blink

..... There's a ring of scoring ....

A belt of scoring is probably a better description.

Blink · 15th August 2020, 10:41

Finally, here's the pressure plate.

There's plenty of scoring to match that belt of marks we saw on the driven plate, but this is most of the way across the contact surface on the pressure plate.

There's also the dark colouration which looks like it been cooked on by the two discs spinning against each other.

This a section of the same shot blown up.

And this is a section of the pressure plate lit with a multi-point LED lamp to highlight the scoring marks and the dark coloration a bit more clearly.

This is not a happy bunny IMO.

NB. Any rust you can see is where I washed it with large amounts of water and washing up liquid (on Friday) and didn't bother to dry it out.

13th August 2020, 19:35	#12
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,050 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	Have a look at the "shadow" marks on the fixings between the splined part and the friction plates. It looks like there may be movement there. Are the clutch fingers (where the thrust bearing touches) even in height from the splined centre? If there are springs on the other side, are they loose? __________________ Oil in my veins!

13th August 2020, 20:05	#14
mh007 This is my second home MG ZT260 SE, MG ZT190+, MG ZTT 160, R75 Conn SE 2.0, R75 Conn SE 2.5 X 3, R75 Club SE 1.8, P5B Coupe Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Keynsham, Bristol Posts: 4,211 Thanks: 65 Thanked 635 Times in 499 Posts	I've seen quite a few centre plates without springs when a DMF is fitted The wear/friction marks are quite normal too.

14th August 2020, 15:03	#17
Blink Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Under the car Posts: 1,840 Thanks: 210 Thanked 244 Times in 221 Posts	Thanks for all the replies chaps. Re rust on the splines - that might be because the car hasn't been used for so long. It's been nowhere at all for well over a year (and some) but the judder was there for years before that. Re the plate - the above pics aren't very clear because direct flash has bounced straight back at the camera, hence its difficult to tell what's wear and what isn't. I'll take some properly lit pics of the old plate alongside the brand new one and post them here. More later (probably tomorrow).

15th August 2020, 10:41	#20
Blink Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Under the car Posts: 1,840 Thanks: 210 Thanked 244 Times in 221 Posts	Finally, here's the pressure plate. There's plenty of scoring to match that belt of marks we saw on the driven plate, but this is most of the way across the contact surface on the pressure plate. There's also the dark colouration which looks like it been cooked on by the two discs spinning against each other. This a section of the same shot blown up. And this is a section of the pressure plate lit with a multi-point LED lamp to highlight the scoring marks and the dark coloration a bit more clearly. This is not a happy bunny IMO. NB. Any rust you can see is where I washed it with large amounts of water and washing up liquid (on Friday) and didn't bother to dry it out.