|
||
|
27th July 2021, 06:39 | #141 | |||||||
This is my second home
75 Tourer 2.5 Auto, 1.8T, 75V8ZT Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Johannesburg ZA
Posts: 6,200
Thanks: 1
Thanked 859 Times in 613 Posts
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I have run with my thermostat for more than ten years and not incurred any fuel penalties. Quote:
When I need scriptures quoted I go and nod off in church! So let me do the work for you! Again! http://archive.retro.co.za/archive/c...h-Motronic.pdf Bosch, Combined Ignition and Fuel-injection system Motronic, Technical instruction. P22 Adjusting to Operating Conditions: Cold Starting, graph Duration of cold start valve operation as a function of coolant temperature, switch off 55 degrees Centigrade. P24 ill. 51 aux air at idle vs. engine temperature, cut off at 80 degrees P26 illustration 54 Enrichment as function of temperature, cut off at 80 degrees. https://www.calameo.com/books/002414077b9b2f09ad1c6 Page 50: Even in the coldest weather the engine will have warmed up sufficiently for the mixture to be dialled back to near nominal values within 2 to 3 minutes. Since it is difficult, if not (so far) impossible to obtain the exact values for the Siemens ECU used in our cars, we have to use our thinking caps, and find pointers elsewhere. Here is a bit of the MG control system, where temperatures are mentioned for oil, used as a substitute if coolant fails. The oil temperature in the MG is normally substantially hotter than the coolant, in a warm engine, and increasing with load. https://www.mgfcar.de/library/ENGINE...VVC_MEMS_3.htm Engine Oil Temperature Sensor The engine oil temperature sensor is located in the oil filter housing on MPi engines and in the Hydraulic Control Unit (HCU) on VVC engines. The sensor provides a signal which allows the ECM to adjust fuelling values according to engine oil temperature, to produce optimum engine performance and minimum emissions during the engine warm up phase. On VVC engines, the ECM also uses the oil temperature to derive the viscosity of the oil passing through the HCU, which indicates how quickly the VVC mechanism will respond. The engine oil temperature sensor consists of an encapsulated Negative Temperature Coefficient (NTC) thermistor which is in contact with the engine oil. The engine oil temperature sensor operates in a similar manner to the ECT sensor. If the engine oil temperature sensor fails, the ECM will substitute a default value which is ramped up 80°C (176°F). This condition will not be apparent to the driver, with the exception of the temperature gauge which will display incorrect readings depending on the sensor failure. The vehicle will run but may suffer from reduced engine performance and increased emissions as adaptive fuelling is disabled. The ECM will store fault codes which can be retrieved using TestBook. If you go for programmable aftermarket EFI's, then there are instructions on how to set the values, also the value wehre the engine has warmed up. As for example here:http://www.fc-design.jp/en/FiEcuManu...sh_release.pdf Read it yourself, for a change, but in there, you will find that the setting for engine warm up on mixture usually will be reduced zero once the engine is warm around 70 to 80 degrees. Quote:
http://www.t-a-s.co.za/thermostats-c...ue-TAS2018.pdf Here you will see 1: that many cars do not run with hot stats, many do. And what is more 2: there are different stats for the V6 in the Rover and in the Landrover, and by Golly!! there is for the 1.8 Rover, MG and the Landrover with the exact same engine! So a Landrover can run a 1.8 with a 75 degree thermostat 5275B and Rover/MG can run the exact same engine with an 88 degree thermostat 5288B. That, if nothing else, should even be able to convince our plastic guru that nothing in this world can be trusted!! How can Rover know what they are doing? Well, he has a point, if they knew what they were doing at all times, maybe they would still build cars?? That is just me! But Rover for all intends and purposes is an ex producer, they have passed on! if they were not nailed to the perch they would have fallen off!! Quote:
And for finishing, just a response to our Swedish cold contributer: Quote:
It seems to me you have not fully grasped how a thermostat works and what it can and cannot do. In cold climates, thermostats are not fully able to control the engine temperature, because the heat losses from the exhaust, and the heater, and the engine to surrounding air is so large that the water in the radiator in many cases do not even reach the start point of thermostat opening! In that case, please explain what an even higher opening temperature would do for you! Absolutely nothing. As you undoubtedly know, one solution in these cases is to fit a mechanical barrier to cold air entering the engine bay. And to pour cold water on the wound, look at the thermostats for VOLVO. I am sure you know VOLVO is Swedish, and they should know something about cold weather, nes pas? Some VOLVOs were issued with thermostats opening at 74 degrees! I guess these cars also came with a warning not to be used in cold weather of the coldest parts of Sweden! But seriously. I haven't got time for all these games of Simon says! It is a drain on my time. You should now have enough reading material here to keep you busy, who knows, maybe even create informed consent! I can only urge you to think, enjoy your cars and be happy if you have a thermostat that opens.! Whether that is at 82 degrees or 88 degrees. If this difference can ruin your enjoyment, cost you money and make you loses sleep then you have too little to do! Standing with an overheated lump waiting for the AA is not my idea of fun! __________________
__________________
Worth his V8 in gold Last edited by kaiser; 27th July 2021 at 06:53.. |
|||||||
27th July 2021, 08:57 | #142 |
I really should get out more.......
Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gävle
Posts: 2,537
Thanks: 395
Thanked 823 Times in 652 Posts
|
You doubt the 18 deg figure? Well I know you are familiar with Danish and perhaps Swedish is close enough: “När motortemperaturen har kommit upp till ca +18 grader C krävs inte längre någon extra uppfetning och bränsle/luftblandningen styrs då med Lambda 1 som riktvärde” source Rover 75 Tekniskt kompendium.
“I’m sure you know Volvo is Swedish” really? so Volvo (cars) is Swedish again, how nice, thought the Chinese had ownership. A quick check on thermostats reveals this: Thermostat, Coolant 92 °C Volvo 850, 900, C70 (-2005), S40 V40 (-2004), S60 (-2009), S70 V70 (-2000), S80 (-2006), S90 V90 (-1998), V70 P26, V70 XC (-2000), XC70 (2001-2007) And I know you are familiar with SD1s too - so am I, my wife & I used SD1s for many years summer & winter. 82 deg thermostat in summer but 92 in winter with further measures like cardboard in front of the radiator and even removing the viscous coupling complete with fan blades. Without these winter measures the car resembled an igloo with frost on the inside. And I was by no means alone: many owners swopped thermostats summer/winter back in the days when such a thing was still possible, even those who owned Volvos. So please enjoy your own 82 deg thermostat and I will continue to enjoy my 88 deg one. Last edited by vitesse; 27th July 2021 at 09:05.. |
27th July 2021, 09:31 | #143 | |
This is my second home
75 Tourer 2.5 Auto, 1.8T, 75V8ZT Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Johannesburg ZA
Posts: 6,200
Thanks: 1
Thanked 859 Times in 613 Posts
|
Quote:
Again, Vitesse, please explain how a 92 degree thermostat will make your car hotter, if the cooling prevents the water in the radiator from reaching the lower trigger point for the thermostat. All you other antics point exactly to my point, prevent excess cooling by blocking off flow of cool air. That result could be exactly the same with a lower opening temperature, until you can exceed 82 degrees. That other people did/do the same does not mean anything, except exactly that. The madness of crowds. Very apt for the times we live in. As for VOLVO, I just pointed out that some of these cars, designed for Swedish conditions also were issued with thermostats opening at 74 degrees. That were in the days when these cars were fully Swedish with a good deal of British Imperial thrown in for good measure. And yes they are Swedish, and among the most popular cars ever sold in Sweden. They have not got a reputation for shoddy workmanship, and weak heaters, if anything, quite the contrary. That is the point really. So, enjoy your thermostat, just don't fret unnecessarily!
__________________
Worth his V8 in gold |
|
27th July 2021, 14:18 | #144 |
Trader
Mk1 2004 tourer cdti + MK1 2003 Saloon CDT Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: west yorkshire
Posts: 495
Thanks: 106
Thanked 91 Times in 57 Posts
|
"kaiser- That indicates a thermostat that does not open correctly and this is could be the equilibrium temperature once hot. IOW little or no thermostat regulation"
And this is the issue myself and others are reporting and not just from one supplier... I know I stated I wasn't going to make any further comments to this thread but... I'm glad the fact that there is an issue has now been acknowledged. I aren't going to change the thermostat unless it's leaking in future.. between this issue and the issue of the Indian made rear arms. This really doesn't inspire confidence for the future. Last edited by biffa75; 27th July 2021 at 15:06.. |
30th July 2021, 07:29 | #145 |
Posted a thing or two
Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louth
Posts: 1,421
Thanks: 380
Thanked 986 Times in 476 Posts
|
Well I have got a thermostat to change today as its leaking on the seam. Let's hope all goes well
|
30th July 2021, 07:38 | #146 | |
Doesn't do things by halves
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model. Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Former Middlesex
Posts: 20,394
Thanks: 1,587
Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts
|
Quote:
Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." Sir Henry Royce. |
|
30th July 2021, 08:13 | #147 |
Posted a thing or two
Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louth
Posts: 1,421
Thanks: 380
Thanked 986 Times in 476 Posts
|
|
30th July 2021, 09:51 | #148 | |
Give to Learn
Freelander 2 Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 18,719
Thanks: 1,155
Thanked 6,407 Times in 3,874 Posts
|
Quote:
I am sure it will go as planned take a few photo and post them up for members to see if you have time. I no longer have a petrol R40 or MGZT but i still purchased an housing the other day just to see what it was like cheapest i could find. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183869318315 The seams look to be welded good, as does the materials it is made of, i had a thought when i was looking at it as we know you us two bands on the straight part, which is then pushed up against the housing and the water pump end of the engine. My thought was if they made the straight a little longer it could be pushed fully home into the housing thus making it more sturdy add that to an housing with the three lugs and it would make for a good sturdy unit as an whole. 1 2 3 As you can see this is where the straight fits into the housing less the clips. 4 not very stable unless the clip bands are fitted. 5 Pushed fully home into the housing and it becomes very stable. 6 I also noticed that inside the housing is a little stop peg which when the straight is pushed fully rests against ? why is it there. 7 I may cut this open to see what stat is inside 82c or 88c
__________________
Arctic Givology Learn to Give Everything is Achievable ad altiora tendo. Check out our Nano meet dates http://www.midlandsnanomeets.co.uk/ http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/index.php?thepage=howto " You do the work , we supply the expertise " |
|
30th July 2021, 10:12 | #149 |
Posted a thing or two
Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louth
Posts: 1,421
Thanks: 380
Thanked 986 Times in 476 Posts
|
Job done via keyhole method all bled up and perfect car back with owner now
|
30th July 2021, 10:15 | #150 |
Posted a thing or two
Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Louth
Posts: 1,421
Thanks: 380
Thanked 986 Times in 476 Posts
|
|
|
|