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Old 8th May 2021, 08:52   #11
Phil th Barrow
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I noticed th Japaneese liked our work force... Jaguar employies at th time were miffed they were'nt getting as much money for working on there "Presstidge" cars than there fellow chums working at Nissan. Backward thinking "it'll do" was buried then with all th other dinasours. Trouble is now im owning a bland euro box... Its a hard circle to square.
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Old 8th May 2021, 09:43   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil th Barrow View Post
.......Backward thinking "it'll do" was buried then.......
I have it on very good authority that the "it'll do" behaviour is still very much alive and well - which is extremely sad and even more short sighted.

It's driven (no pun intended) by the bean counters and time & motion folks who set stupidly low costs and ridiculous time pressures for anything to be done thoroughly, sensibly and properly.

If someone gets a bonus for hitting a target - and that's a significant sum of £££'s - then guess what, some (most?) will cut whatever corners they think they can get away with to get those ££££'s. Particularly if they're generally treated like serfs.

And if it never comes back to bite them (or even more importantly - the managers), personally, then where's the disincentive?

Excepting, of course, those that just can't do the job to the required standard and need to find something that they can do well.

For fun, try describing all the attributes of our cars without mentioning the marque. Include the "little" things like headlight washers, auto wipers, cruise, split rear seats and opening glass on a tourer, electric pack etc. etc and play guess the manufacturer.

See what the reaction is when you say - it's a Rover/MG. Try fibbing and say it's a Merc. And there you have the problem.
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Old 8th May 2021, 11:11   #13
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My 75’s were often mistaken for Jaguars.
That speaks volumes on how good they were. Pity that the German numpty scuppered the launch in 1998. For all that happened from the 1950’s that contributed to the company demise, that was the day the first coffin nail was hammered in. Unforgivable and unprofessional.
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Old 8th May 2021, 11:44   #14
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I wouldn't have a problem with a government funded/part funded company. But I think the motoring press had already pretty much scuppered MGR's chances, the name had a bad reputation, and I don't think, regardless of how much money was invested, people would have seen beyond the badge. Plus, as much as I'd like to see the Rover name alive, they would have had to provide cars that the market place desires, which for me, would mean I would be unlikely to want a modern one anyway, very very few modern cars appeal to me, either interior or exterior, so I'll be keeping the ZT going as long as practical.
Reminds me of the continuing hostility of the motoring press to anything UK made. The Quadratic steering wheel is an example. Stick it on an Allegro and give it some "well deserved stick". Stick on a Ferrari (if not Ferrari then another supercar it was) and the press had orgasms!

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Old 8th May 2021, 11:49   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN01 View Post
It's driven (no pun intended) by the bean counters and time & motion folks who set stupidly low costs and ridiculous time pressures for anything to be done thoroughly, sensibly and properly.

If someone gets a bonus for hitting a target - and that's a significant sum of £££'s - then guess what, some (most?) will cut whatever corners they think they can get away with to get those ££££'s. Particularly if they're generally treated like serfs.

And if it never comes back to bite them (or even more importantly - the managers), personally, then where's the disincentive?

Excepting, of course, those that just can't do the job to the required standard and need to find something that they can do well.
Reminds if the penny pinching of some 70's decisions. The cranks on Triumph Dolomite (slant 4) and Stag were originally Nitrided. Save a couple of pence and just Tuftride them. Result, no engine failure claims (crank issues) when Nitrided but just the opposite on the change.

Don't forget ProDrive? My vehicle has one horn (the other deleted on cost grounds). It barrps like a strangled frog! Pahh!

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Old 8th May 2021, 17:25   #16
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Sadly I think the British lost their pride in anything made here or being owned by us so the appetite for saving it just wasn't there.
In the 60's even the Conservatives believed in keeping important enterprises, services etc. under our own control. Since the 80's we have lost just about everything with the word "British" in front of it and, for all our politicians' love of standing in front of Union Flags, they are actually quite happy to see everything pass to foreign ownership. One of the saddest things is that in our desire to "take back control" we have given a mandate to those determined to open up to foreign investors the last corners of the NHS not already contracted out.

So yes, Rover should have been saved. And so should have been everything from the water companies to the British Airports Authority.
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Old 10th May 2021, 22:21   #17
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Strange how many of the people that banged on about pride in being British, taking back control, flying flags, greatest country in the world etc bought German cars and Japanese motorbikes.
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Old 11th May 2021, 02:02   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdude666 View Post
I wouldn't have a problem with a government funded/part funded company. But I think the motoring press had already pretty much scuppered MGR's chances, the name had a bad reputation, and I don't think, regardless of how much money was invested, people would have seen beyond the badge. Plus, as much as I'd like to see the Rover name alive, they would have had to provide cars that the market place desires, which for me, would mean I would be unlikely to want a modern one anyway, very very few modern cars appeal to me, either interior or exterior, so I'll be keeping the ZT going as long as practical.
It's true, but we like these cars because they are a bit different to the modern cars available.

I'm my opinion, as much as I love my 75. It was actually not a car that was going to save the company. If you think about it, who was it really going to appeal to? The saloon car is not actually very practical, they were underpowered, so not very sporty. The interior is gorgeous, but of limited appeal. You either love it or hate it. Not really much going for it. The build quality is miles ahead of stuff they use to make, but that's all.

The 75 needed more power, at least a 3 litre, it needed cutting edge modern interior not granny's sideboard. Actually if the MG ZT had come out first, with a 3 litre rear wheel drive set up and about 225/250 bhp it would have done much better, more like a Mondeo ST 220. But then it would have been in competition with BMW's own cars, and they weren't going to let that happen. BMW only wanted the Mini brand, not competition. Sadly, Rover went down the road of "nostalgia trip" which will only attract older generations. Probably guided by BMW so as not to take away any sales at all from their own brand, which is understandable.
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Old 11th May 2021, 04:59   #19
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Here's my thoughts

In the 70s during Michael Edwardes time at bl he was able to overcome some of the major strike issues brought about by red robbo (some 512 strikes) were believed to have been held by red robbo.. (wether this figure is correct or not its a seriously high figure) so their must have been a heck of a lot of strikes.. once red robbo was outted and Michael Edwardes denied red robbo to return to working for the company. Further strikes were voted on before strike action was taken in most cases (from what I've read.)

During the later 70s entry into the Chinese market was also explored however at the time, it was financially viable and wouldn't be for quite a long time after.. had it been, I wonder if assemblies or sub assemblies could have been made here and shipped over saving costs for the final product?
(However today the mg brand is all that exists and is entirely owned by the chinese.. ) the alchemy group who wanted to buy the mg rover brand before the phoenix four entered the game, wanted to stop the production of rover and only produce mg.. appear both of these two things happened.. mg only and in China where it's cheaper.. just not under British ownership anymore.)
1980s government interference, sooner sell off a national company to bae with the agreement of not selling for 5 years.
Honda and rover tie up.. I believe their first real success between the two companies came in the 1990s with the bubble shape 200 (just as BMW were taking over) as they had been keeping an eye on rover for some 7 years with what I believe we're the intentions of taking the land rover name and range rover and developing it into their own vehicles. (Using the defender and range rover fame for their own purposes much like they did the mini).

I believe the 75 was a distraction technique in some ways allowing for the development of the mini to continue and be taken from rover when the 75 wasnt the hit they hoped it would be (wouldnt really have faired well with BMW representatives telling the British motoring press it was delayed due to quality issues?).. I wouldn't be telling the British motoring press anything of the sort considering the British motoring presses history regarding the rover brand as a whole..
(In any case why would BMW want the rover 75 to be a success as it would potentially take BMW customers to rover). They weren't about to gain the mini brand and turn it into an internationally recognisable icon but risk their existing customer base.

Mg Rover could have been saved I think had the government stepped in before the bae takeover and done a 50/50 split government part funded with honda.

It would have also helped I believe if the rover company had undergone a rebranding to make itself more appealing to the younger market (trying to maintain its existing customer base and then apply itself to a younger market may have been very difficult if not impossible, but it would probably have been required in order for the brand to survive).

As an example to the above, had the 75 been a more coupe esq design as per the original drawings but with a hatch design instead of a saloon, if this would have allowed the 75 to be received by the British motoring press in a better way and potentially opened itself to a bigger customer market after all, saloons were and are quite restrictive by their design.. in some ways would it have faired better if it had been pitched against the s type but even more practical due to the coupe/hatchback design it would have opened itself to more potential buyers due to its improved practicality over the s type?...

One thing's for sure though.. honda appeared to be really understanding and patient with rover in many cases and did try unlike BMW..

As for the phoenix four.. I've often wondered why John towers resigned not long after the BMW takeover (loss of power perhaps?) Did John towers really want the mg rover group to succeed?

I just hope that one day if British car manufacturing is brough back to Britain, that it's done using the rover name in one way or another.. it's unfortunate to think that the skills, the knowledge, the pride and ambition and the "we are Britain and we build cars" doesn't really exist anymore..

Yet the names tha were once regarded as status symbols.. range rover, jaguars, land rovers are now all owned by Tata of India.. why is it India can do it but the British who once gave the world these cars.. couldn't do it anymore?..

I don't intend for this post to sound all patriotic but I do wonder if did have a government that believed and backed British engineering and the motor industry and that did invest.. would we still have university students study for years, accumulating debts of thousands to wind up wearing hair nets in a warehouse packing for minimum wage..
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Last edited by biffa75; 11th May 2021 at 05:54.. Reason: Reworded
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Old 11th May 2021, 05:02   #20
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