police recruitment

[macafee2]

The news said he handed himself in and was given 2 weeks jail time, a bit harsh perhaps but perhaps some harsh sentences may deter others. mmm the US has the death penalty and still crimes go on so may be not.

macafee2

[clf]

George Floyd, by all accounts was a violent offender, with a criminal record stating as much, so it could be believable that he wasnt 'going quietly'. On the flip side, we dont know if the policeman said or did anything to trigger a response, or if there was any direct history with them in the past.

I had read George Floyd had drugs in his system, if this was in fact true, and he was high (and not simply with drugs from three days ago), this would have been obvious, he looked quite a bit bigger physically, than the policeman, so the policeman could have been struggling to keep control of him. He was placed in the patrol car, and somehow got out and ended up on the ground (I have read various reports regarding him fighting and claiming to be claustrophobic etc whilst in the car).

So, how about this scenario? George Floyd kicking and yelling in the back of the car, claiming to be claustrophobic, the policeman empathises, goes to the car, and removes him, stating they will get a van for his transport to the police station. As he is removed, he fights, and tries to break free (he may have been on parole, and any court appearance is likely to send him back to prison). The struggle ensues, and he is placed in this paralysing neck hold - as his training. Now the crowd has swollen, he is watching baying group grow in size, while he and his 2 or 3 other colleagues try to keep calm, and maintain order. George Floyd is complaining he cannot breathe, perhaps struggling. To the policeman, his knee is still in the 'safe' position, but with the heat of the moment, he hasnt realised his knee has moved out of position (or George Floyd). Besides, George Floyd can say he cannot breathe, therefore he must be able to, and besides, he may have lied about being claustrophobic? If he moves, he will not be able to watch the crowd, for safety of himself and his colleagues.

That of course is a story in my own mind, but it could realistically be an account of the event.

The policeman will be advised to be saying nothing right now, and if he was to speak, any emotion he displays will be leapt upon, as either crocodile tears or arrogance. I do not think a fair trial is likely now.

We only get to see what an individual or media outlet permits us to see. You can see what kind of response these single viewpoints of one incident.

I am not saying the policeman is innocent (or guilty), but I am saying there is more to the story than one or two videos.

------------------------------------------

As far as the drunk man urinating on the memorial, again, I bet he was not aware of where he was precisely, and simply 'whipped it out' to pee. But to me that is not an excuse. You should be aware of where you are and of those around you. I thought 14 days was harsh, but see no issue with it either - possible that he was not able to pay any fines, or so wealthy a fine would be irrelevant. People should be responsible for their actions, drunk and sober. Hopefully he and others will learn from it.

[wraymond]

Couldn't agree more with that. Seeing the newsreel as we do, we must realise it has been through a studio for various legal and other reasons.

I've no doubt other activities at that time and in that place have been edited or removed. Sound tracks are notoriously easy to 'moderate' and vital emphasis can be altered. I'm not saying all this has happened, just that to create all the waffle around the world on the back of one clip in terrible circumstances may be just a tad of an over-reaction.

It appeals to the totally unfounded faith in the minds of broadcasters about the general public's lack of intellect and an assumed inability to reason. The camera doesn't lie? Do me a favour - from USA, the land of superlative fantasy and utterly believable fiction and over-reaction?

[andymc]

It is not the job of the police to act as judge, jury and executioner, but rather to arrest and detain a suspect.

I would describe a "short clip" showing part of an incident as maybe a couple of minutes at most. The footage of this incident is much longer than that - it shows Derek Chauvin persistently kneeling on Floyd's neck for over 8 minutes. During this entire time, Floyd was lying face down with his hands cuffed behind his back. He had resisted being pulled from his own car by two officers, but he was no longer capable of resisting when lying handcuffed face down. Other video footage which has subsequently surfaced shows that initially, three police officers were kneeling on him.

To eliminate ambiguity, you can watch the incident in its entirety, from the moment the police arrive, in this 21-minute video. It shows how little threat Floyd posed from the outset. It also shows how little threat was posed to the police officers by bystanders. WARNING - this contains complete footage of a man being slowly killed. It is not suitable for minors.

Chauvin continued to kneel on Floyd's neck, for exactly 8 minutes and 46 seconds. This includes the time, about a minute (I don't want to watch it again to check exactly), that he persisted in doing so even after the arrival of the ambulance crew, with Floyd lying silent and unmoving.

In other words, Chauvin was not alone and not in danger from Floyd or from witnesses - he had three others with him initially, and three squad cars subsequently arrived. Floyd was not a threat to him.

The second, independent autopsy determined the cause of death to be homicide, not resulting from drug use. From the Telegraph report:

The autopsy said the compression cut off blood to Mr Floyd's brain, and weight on his back made it hard to breathe.
The new autopsy was released on Monday by forensic pathologist Dr Michael Baden, who also examined the body of Eric Garner, a black man who died in 2014 after New York police placed him in a chokehold and he pleaded that he could not breathe.
He found that compression cut off blood to Mr Floyd's brain, and the weight on his back made it difficult for him to get enough oxygen.
Dr Baden said the second autopsy showed that Mr Floyd "had no underlying medical problem that caused or contributed to his death."
He said the belief that someone is breathing if they can talk "is not true". "I am talking and talking and talking and not breathing in front of you," he said.

The version you have posited is very far from reality.

[wraymond]

Watched the video through. What I saw and heard:

Difficult arrest, prisoner struggling and protesting, head and shoulders over the officer, resisting officers. The 'take down' was not on film and there were massive redactions throughout so the full record is suspect.

At 11.09 prisoner was on the ground chest down and head on his left cheek on ground. The knee was placed on the side of the neck. Officer's other leg, out of shot, was presumably foot on ground to achieve stability. Prisoner cohesive at 12.15

12.49 Prisoner complains of stomach and neck hurting. Officer moves leg to the back of the neck. Officer continually looking at prisoner.

A significant period of protesting from a loudly commentating member of the public, all of it to the officer holding Mr. Floyd. This was then directed at the two other officers attending and was diverting attention from the arrest.

Considerable harassment of the officers by a section of the public, diverting attention from the capture. The commentating and agitating witness began threatening and insulting the officer.

18.59: Officer took leg off neck and prisoner was removed and carried to the van.
Throughout there were aggressive public challenges.

With no bias from me: the public were or seemed to be entirely supportive of the prisoner and verbally aggressive to the officers. Two witnessing officers were extremely aware of the public around them and appeared to be in defence mode. The atmosphere was tense and officers were partially crouching during the retreat to the van.

This was definitely not as first reported, go on, see for yourself. The arrest was aggressive yes, what else would you expect in that environment? I don't know how anybody would want to be a police officer, and a white one at that, in that environment. The charge of murder is ridiculous.

[clf]

Just watched most of the video. It didnt quite escalate or was a dramatic as I had first read. However, in saying that, the video is not complete, redacted (in both vision and sound), also it does not cover significant moments or angles. Perhaps the policeman with the knee has a camera that will explain things further? (assumed to be preserved for evidence if it does exist).

If there has in fact been little removed from the video, the time that it takes for the ambulance arrive, suggests that it was called in response to what happened before he was put to ground. This could explain also why he was held in position for so long (which I was questioning myself until the ambulance arrived). The movement of George Floyd suggests to me that the officer was not kneeling on him with massive pressure, however it also looks like he has moved multiple times. Therefore the knee position has moved.

The abuse and shouting from the bystanders (not as many as I had read), as well as the possibility of issues with the other people from the car (was there guns, drugs or other criminal material for evidence? George Floyd seems to have been slurring his speech - at this point, though it could have been for any reason). It would stand to reason that all the police present, were on edge, and concentrating on the surroundings. The policeman with the knee on Floyd's neck, does indeed seem to be looking smugly at him though(almost continually). This does make it look particularly nasty. But playing devil's advocate, he could well feel smug, but he has just overpowered/subdued an offender who was violently resisting arrest (violent is a matter of opinion, and to me, any resistance is violent). He did not appear though, to be conversing at all with George Floyd. It was at this point I was wondering why hasnt he been lifted into the car again, he was subdued, but then the ambulance arrives. To me that is what they were waiting for. Why was the ambulance called? I would be willing to bet it was something to do with George Floyds issues prior to being held, rather than him losing consciousness.

There is one damning situation from that video. It may be innocent though, the liquid running under the car. Could that have been urine? AC outflow? or a broken bottle of water? If it was urine, then could it have been because Floyd was under the influence of drugs, and lost control? Did he lose control because of the position he was in? Did he purposely urinate as an act of belligerence?

I wish I hadnt have watched the video, because it only raises more questions. It is a manipulated video, that serves no purpose other than to incite (I should add that it is no inference to you Andy, for posting the link!). To me, it doesnt add any weight to the murder charge - it actually makes me think murder is harsh!

At the end of the day, though, the police involved deserve to be investigated, all incidents like this need to be. The entire situation needs to be. Members of the public need to step back and let those who investigate such actions, do what is needed to do. Without the full facts of the time, no one (including us) can tell. Whilst the police and other public servants are answerable to the public, the public have to wait for that process or the process will be compromised. And that is what I think has happened here. If the police are exonerated, there will be major trouble. But equally, if they are found guilty, are police going to be frightened to arrest anyone for fear of accusation.

'I put it to you sergeant Jones, you only approached my client because he was {insert relevant minority}'
'no I approached him because I witnessed him passing a packet of drugs for money'
'But you only looked at him in the first place because he was {insert relevant minority}, is that not true?'

[alanaslan]

I have just come across this thread and spent the past hour carefully going over it.
It seems to start with the question being asked as to how there so many posts currently waiting for people to complete the selection process. That would allow them to be considered for the post.
From my personal experience of dealing with the police, I have to say that some are very fair and listen to witnesses and people involved. Whilst some have preconceived ideas which they bring to an investigation. These ideas can bias an investigation from the very start and can lead to a very half hearted investigation.
We need many more Police officers preferably those with an open mind. I have to say that I do not expect the forces to fill their vacant posts in my lifetime, somewhere between the next ten to twenty years.
We also require many more Nurses and until the uk Governments carry out a proper job evaluation and raise the pay and conditions to a level that reflects the role they play, in the discharging of their duties. I am sad to say there will always be a massive gap between posts and people to fill them. Again this will not be sorted in my lifetime.

Unfortunately there will always be Police officers who think they can operate outside the law.
Once a suspect is in hand cuffs the threat or risk they pose is greatly reduced.
There is never any situation where kneeling on a persons neck is acceptable. No matter what stage in restraining the suspect.
Until everyone in the world realises that using this method of restraint on any other human is unacceptable, there will always be somebody who thinks that this kind of behaviour is acceptable.

What is required today is a total revaluation of everyone’s job, and their wage to reflect the outcome of the evaluation. Not some bean counter to say that the country can’t afford to pay the recommended amount and then just float a arbitrary figure out to then have the Government of the day accept the silly sum rather than pay the carefully considered sum.

The past eighteen months has been a wonderful playing field leveller. It is just a shame that those in power have not payed attention to the lessons. Or if they have they have gone back to putting their blinkers on.

All those in power need to do is carry out a risk assessment and implement the control measures no matter how unpopular they may be and proceed implementing the cost analysis.

I find it all very sad that any group of people or individual should attempt to change something that has had a proper assessment carried out on it. Once an assessment has been done the recommendations in the assessment should be carried out. Then it should remain in its changed state as recommended by the assessment until the next review date.

Sadly people will always go off at a tangent and things will just not be progressed to their required conclusion.

Perhaps it is just that I am an old man and can witness the same mistakes being made again and again.decade after decade.

Alan

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by macafee2

Currently there are adverts for police recruitment, some 20,000 posts.
I would like to see figures published about the applicants such as how many count themselves as Asian, Black or white.

why you may ask?

Often the police are called raciest and shouts of how many black officers do you see.
Well, lets see the numbers of applicants, number of applicants by colour and the numbers taken on by colour, not sure you can draw much of a conclusion as 100% of one may be suitable while 100% of another may not.

macafee2

Asking how many have criminal convictions might also be relevant.

Kev

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by clf

Employ people capable of doing and qualified for the job irrespective colour race, sex or religion.

That used to be the criteria until the "the highly educated" and "brainwashed" agenda people decided that doing honest and moral work was not for them and so went forth and created a whole new industry of infighting.

Kev

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by wraymond

A significant period of protesting from a loudly commentating member of the public, all of it to the officer holding Mr. Floyd. This was then directed at the two other officers attending and was diverting attention from the arrest.

Considerable harassment of the officers by a section of the public, diverting attention from the capture. The commentating and agitating witness began threatening and insulting the officer.

18.59: Officer took leg off neck and prisoner was removed and carried to the van.
Throughout there were aggressive public challenges.

With no bias from me: the public were or seemed to be entirely supportive of the prisoner and verbally aggressive to the officers. Two witnessing officers were extremely aware of the public around them and appeared to be in defence mode. The atmosphere was tense and officers were partially crouching during the retreat to the van.

This was definitely not as first reported, go on, see for yourself. The arrest was aggressive yes, what else would you expect in that environment? I don't know how anybody would want to be a police officer, and a white one at that, in that environment. The charge of murder is ridiculous.

Yes, much support until they themselves become victims of criminal activity. The majority call the police

Kev