KV6 2.0 Cambelt Renewal Thoughts - Page 3

kaiser · 28th July 2021, 09:59

Winners never quit and quitters never win!

So what does that make a chap who stops while the going is good.?

Likewise preventative fix is better than fix on fail, vs don't fix if it aint broken!

The choice is up to the owner, but the results of a wrong decision can be a total loss of the car.

If the car is important to you, always follow the rules in cases where the consequences can be fatal.

You don't want a display of bent valves, or worse!, in these engines, if you can help it!

dave lincs · 28th July 2021, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaiser

Winners never quit and quitters never win!

So what does that make a chap who stops while the going is good.?

Likewise preventative fix is better than fix on fail, vs don't fix if it aint broken!

The choice is up to the owner, but the results of a wrong decision can be a total loss of the car.

If the car is important to you, always follow the rules in cases where the consequences can be fatal.

You don't want a display of bent valves, or worse!, in these engines, if you can help it!

Well said Kaiser the manufactures interval is specified for a good reason

Dave

clf · 28th July 2021, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD1too

TIm's engine, and the many others in the same position, have already demonstrated the truth.

Simon

Truth, evidence, facts? All strong positive words used by you in the past on this issue. But they are incorrectly applied, misguided and even possibly delusional.

What you have is and always has been anecdotal evidence with no scientific fact, research nor experience (qualified) to back your claims.

Are you willing to repair someone's engine with a broken belt, if the owner states, I was told by sd1too on the 75zt owners club that it I did not need to do the belt change?

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

Simondi · 28th July 2021, 10:40

As had been said before.
The position of this club is that belts etc. should be changed in accordance with the manufacturers advice.

If someone chooses not to do so then that is the individuals choice, but the advice by the club is that you should follow the manufacturers advice

roverbarmy · 28th July 2021, 10:42

My missus could probably do with a toy boy. I can't see why, because I have all the same equipment which appears to be perfect to my eyes. I could run for years yet (well, walk at a brisk pace!). I don't think that I am about to peg out just yet but I did lose a good mate just last week who was about the same age. You pay your money (or not) and take your choice. Can we put this to bed now? (Assuming that a toy boy is not required!)

dave lincs · 28th July 2021, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simondi

As had been said before.
The position of this club is that belts etc. should be changed in accordance with the manufacturers advice.

If someone chooses not to do so then that is the individuals choice, but the advice by the club is that you should follow the manufacturers advice

Simon

Exactly right as a club we should advise owners to go with the specified change point as if it breaks it wont be long before someone says " It said on the owners club it would be ok "

Dave

Ducati750cc · 28th July 2021, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave lincs

It is quite simple Simon the intervals were set by MGR which should be done, Quite a lot of other manufactures specify high cambelt change intervals and then they break before they reach there change point, I would advise anyone to change there belts on time or run the risk of serious engine damage

Dave

I totally agree, manufacturers don't give out change intervals or specs to make more money on servicing, they do it to make sure they don't get bad press from failures.

The specs are arrived at from their own R&D dept's and consultations with the belt, pulley and tensioner manufacturers after going through the many variables that affect belt life, from material, belt speeds, belt path, expected temperatures, tensions, affects of atmospheric pollutants,contamination by various engine fluids and so on.

From these they arrive at the recommended interval which has quite a reasonable safety margin.

In the main they get this right, but occasionally as in the past when belts fail before they should do for various reasons, they reduce the change interval.

You could get two cars off the production line with engines, belts etc all from the same production run, one may have its belt fail not long after the change time, the other go for many thousand more miles and still be operating.

If two identical engines were bench run side by side in identical conditions for 100,000 miles, one programmed for low to average stop start cycles, lots of motorway use, the other very high stop start cycles, such as a city center taxi, the latter would show more degradation.

Why is that ? simple, it is due to the fact that maximum stress is placed on a belt is at start up, when it has to overcome the inertia of the stationary camshafts and other ancillaries it drives, think of having to give a wheelbarrow that first nudge to get going after which less energy is needed to proceed, it is the same reason that most cam-belt breakage's or tooth loss occur when starting rather than when under way.

When all said and done, it's not a fortune in time or money to change on time.

Conversely, I expect the same folk who don't change belts on time change oil and filters meticulously on time, even though if lab sampled they would be still OK for easily another 10,000 miles.

Number 2 son with the garage does very well from customers who think they save pennies by prolonging service times and his black museum cabinet of mangled engine and transmission parts is proof of the potential costs, on the other hand at number 1 sons company where the lubricant changes are only done after lab tests it is surprising at how changes can be extended to far beyond the normal time on many engines, yet other identical engines with the same running patterns need more frequent changes.

Lesson being is that if you have the means to test belts, lubricants etc to determine if they need changing do so, if not stick to the manufacturers recommended times to prevent unexpected and costly surprises.

SD1too · 29th July 2021, 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by clf

What you have is and always has been anecdotal evidence with no scientific fact, research nor experience (qualified) to back your claims.

I don't understand how you reach that conclusion Alan! We have the factual experience of the belts on my own car. We also have that of several other club members who have found exactly the same thing. The research is keeping one's eyes open for these reports. It may be that you consider that anecdotal but I see no reason to disbelieve them.

Simon

clf · 29th July 2021, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD1too

I don't understand how you reach that conclusion Alan! We have the factual experience of the belts on my own car. We also have that of several other club members who have found exactly the same thing. The research is keeping one's eyes open for these reports. It may be that you consider that anecdotal but I see no reason to disbelieve them.

Simon

Unfortunately Simon, I do not think you ever will. You do not even understand my objection to some of your misinformation and potentially dangerous advice/guidance. Even more damning though, is your penultimate sentence. I am beginning to fear that you do not understand what research actually is.

For your record, I believe every one of these anecdotal instances, including yours! I have said it before, I am one of those who have ignored the schedules concluded from proper research and development, eg. one 14 year old car, 235,000 miles, 195k in my family's ownership, and still on the original belt - it had a 60k/4year change schedule! This and others is not considered factual, it is anecdotal evidence! It is not proof, not is it research!

dave lincs · 29th July 2021, 13:53

This thread seems to have got pointless now the OP did his own belts and well done to him as they needed doing, As the majority of us know the belt change interval and go by it knowing it makes good sense and gives piece of mind for another 6 years of motoring without keeping thinking of belt failure

The belt change point is 6 years or 90000 miles as stated my MGR as I'm sure all now are aware

28th July 2021, 09:59	#21
kaiser This is my second home 75 Tourer 2.5 Auto, 1.8T, 75V8ZT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Johannesburg ZA Posts: 6,200 Thanks: 1 Thanked 859 Times in 613 Posts	Winners never quit and quitters never win! So what does that make a chap who stops while the going is good.? Likewise preventative fix is better than fix on fail, vs don't fix if it aint broken! The choice is up to the owner, but the results of a wrong decision can be a total loss of the car. If the car is important to you, always follow the rules in cases where the consequences can be fatal. You don't want a display of bent valves, or worse!, in these engines, if you can help it! __________________ Worth his V8 in gold

28th July 2021, 10:40	#24
Simondi Regional Secretary MGTF, MG ZS EV Exclusive Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Kilwinning Posts: 14,046 Thanks: 1,460 Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,857 Posts	As had been said before. The position of this club is that belts etc. should be changed in accordance with the manufacturers advice. If someone chooses not to do so then that is the individuals choice, but the advice by the club is that you should follow the manufacturers advice __________________ Simondi FAQ How do you do that? Club Flyers Looking for a car seen in a film or on TV? Fancy a change in colour or wheels - paint configurator OBD - Trip Meter Ultimate Buyers Guide Post YouTube videos

28th July 2021, 10:42	#25
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,050 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	My missus could probably do with a toy boy. I can't see why, because I have all the same equipment which appears to be perfect to my eyes. I could run for years yet (well, walk at a brisk pace!). I don't think that I am about to peg out just yet but I did lose a good mate just last week who was about the same age. You pay your money (or not) and take your choice. Can we put this to bed now? (Assuming that a toy boy is not required!) __________________ Oil in my veins!

29th July 2021, 13:53	#30
dave lincs Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Louth Posts: 1,409 Thanks: 380 Thanked 986 Times in 476 Posts	This thread seems to have got pointless now the OP did his own belts and well done to him as they needed doing, As the majority of us know the belt change interval and go by it knowing it makes good sense and gives piece of mind for another 6 years of motoring without keeping thinking of belt failure The belt change point is 6 years or 90000 miles as stated my MGR as I'm sure all now are aware