Cambelt change time

[john116]

Or this - genuine Rover: https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-ZUA001550

[BigBen]

The kit you linked to on eBay is from B S Motors in Sandy. I can tell you from personal experience they're excellent (I used to use them all the time for parts when I lived in Willington, 5 miles down the road) and are also X-Part dealers. In fact "Maurice", my 190 has a genuine kit on him I purchased from them in 2016. Nick at E-CP/B S Motors is a great guy, and very knowledgable.

You don't need the special tools to change the belts, just to line the cams up if you have removed or loosened the front cam pulleys (which you don't need to do for a belt change).

Just make sure you lock the crank in the "safe" position, mark up the cam positions before you remove the belt and make sure everything lines up when you fit the new ones. The rear cam pulleys for the short belts are keyed to the shafts and have timing marks stamped in them; so need no special tools to line them up, either.

You'll need two new bolts for those, though - oh, and plenty of threadlocker!

It's no more difficult than any other twin cam engine, just a bit more time consuming getting to it!

B S also have the standard genuine MG/Rover kit without the thermostat, it's normally about £160.

I personally would not change the thermostat unless it is already leaking, however, as it's a well known weak spot it's always good to have one ready just in case.

The hoses should be fine, the originals are probably higher quality and less likely to fail than anything you replace them with

HTH!

Originally Posted by Roker

Going to bite the bullet and do a set of overdue cambelts. I am in Australia , so Fleabay will have to suffice for me getting the necessary parts. Had a quick look and there are some mind boggling range of prices and, perhaps, quality as a result. Can someone guide me as to what are the best ( not necessarily cheapest) options for decent parts. I guess, whilst it is in bits that the thermostat piping should also be changed and perhaps even the water pump(?). I see a genuine MGR kit that includes all of these for around £250 plus £40 or so postage to our fair shores. Link as below.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ULTIMATE...IAAOSwbRFayyd~

All hoses look original,so is it worth doing those too for peace of mind?

Any trusted traders that inhabit these forums can supply? Would rather give my business to individuals that contribute to the knowledge here than to a random that couldnt give a stuff once the goods have been sold.

The old girl turned 18 a few weeks ago and only has 67,000km on her and just want to ensure that she doesn't let me down. Using crappy parts will interfere with that strategy.

Thanks guys.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by BigBen

You don't need the special tools to change the belts ... make sure everything lines up when you fit the new ones.

A lot of detail is missing here. Ben, could you explain how you managed to ...

1. Align the two inlet sprockets and hold them against valve spring pressure whilst simultaneously lacing the new belt as tightly as possible as well as inserting the tensioner body bolts against its hydraulic force, all using just two hands?
2. Fit the rear sprockets, perfectly aligned, with the new belt not slipping off with one hand whilst the other hand rotates the exhaust camshaft against valve spring pressure into alignment?

Perhaps you had help? Please explain, I would really like to know how it's done.

Simon

[BigBen]

Originally Posted by SD1too

A lot of detail is missing here. Ben, could you explain how you managed to ...

1. Align the two inlet sprockets and hold them against valve spring pressure whilst simultaneously lacing the new belt as tightly as possible as well as inserting the tensioner body bolts against its hydraulic force, all using just two hands?
2. Fit the rear sprockets, perfectly aligned, with the new belt not slipping off with one hand whilst the other hand rotates the exhaust camshaft against valve spring pressure into alignment?

Perhaps you had help? Please explain, I would really like to know how it's done.

Simon

There were two of us, and yes it was a pain but not that tricky.

With everything marked up (four marks on each front sprocket, two yellow & two white) with the engine locked in the safe position (so no valve damage can occur) it's quite easy to put the belt on, if you adjust the tensioner afterwards.

I had no choice as the workshop tool won't fit my engine anyway.

The rear sprockets are keyed to the shaft, they're easy enough to hold the exhaust cam in the correct position with a ratchet/socket on the bolt head while someone else slips the other sprocket and belt on.

Turn the engine over a few times by hand just to make sure everything still lines up. (in my case about 12 times forward and backwards just to absolutely check everything!!!)

I'm sure Trikey will be along soon to explain it better than I ever could...

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by BigBen

There were two of us, and yes it was a pain ...

How did you share the tasks? It would be an understatement to say that it was "a pain" for one person to hold two sprocket wheels in a precise position against considerable valve spring pressure with just one hand on each.

Originally Posted by BigBen

... it's quite easy to put the belt on, if you adjust the tensioner afterwards.

I wasn't asking about adjusting the tensioner Ben. Was the hydraulic casing bolted to the engine at the time that you laced the belt?

Originally Posted by BigBen

I had no choice as the workshop tool won't fit my engine anyway.

That's not true. There is a tool separately available for the 190 engine. Some members say that the spigots on the standard tool can be reversed to achieve the same result.

Originally Posted by BigBen

The rear sprockets are keyed to the shaft, they're easy enough to hold the exhaust cam in the correct position with a ratchet/socket on the bolt head ...

Which bolt head? Did you remove the exhaust cam sprocket to release the belt? Your reply implies that you did. If so, I can't think of a bolt head which you could have used.

Originally Posted by BigBen

I'm sure Trikey will be along soon to explain it better than I ever could.

You claimed to have done it without the tools so I'd like to hear your explanation please. Or are you saying that the person helping you was Trikey?

Simon

[BigBen]

Originally Posted by SD1too

How did you share the tasks? It would be an understatement to say that it was "a pain" for one person to hold two sprocket wheels in a precise position against considerable valve spring pressure with just one hand on each.

I wasn't asking about adjusting the tensioner Ben. Was the hydraulic casing bolted to the engine at the time that you laced the belt?

No, it wasn't. There's no reason you can't put the belt on slack and then tension everything up afterwards, so long as all the marks line up. You just need to know how to count teeth.

Originally Posted by SD1too

That's not true. There is a tool separately available for the 190 engine. Some members say that the spigots on the standard tool can be reversed to achieve the same result.

It is true, as my engine has Piper 270 cams and verniers... it's the tool for the 150/2.0 V6 that will fit the 190 if you reverse the pins on it, it's been done many times.

Originally Posted by SD1too

Which bolt head? Did you remove the exhaust cam sprocket to release the belt? Your reply implies that you did. If so, I can't think of a bolt head which you could have used.

I only remove the pulley on the inlet side, and use a ratchet with a 19mm deep socket to adjust/hold the exhaust cam; then you can use the tension of the front belt to stop the cam from moving when you tighten the inlet bolt back up (obviously the old main belt before you remove it). The rear belts/pulleys are much easier to line up as the marks are clearly visible, stamped into the pulleys (although a dob of tip-ex can help to make them stand out a bit). Also, due to the rear belt inlet-side pulleys being keyed to the cam they require no special tool to re-fit them correctly.

Originally Posted by SD1too

You claimed to have done it without the tools so I'd like to hear your explanation please. Or are you saying that the person helping you was Trikey?

It's quite simple. If you don't undo the bolts on the front cam sprockets there's no need to re-time the cams, so therefore you don't need the tool (and even then it's not that difficult to re-time the cams without it). I've done it 3 times now, so..

The tool is really an aid for speed of fitment rather than a necessity.

The tone and first part of that paragraph lead me to conclude that you believe me to be a liar. That's fine, I've been called worse - If you don't believe me it's no skin off my nose.

No it wasn't Trikey, it was a good friend of mine who has been a mechanic for over 25 years. The same person with whom I rebuilt the engine and tuned it in 2007. But I have no doubt that Trikey will be able to explain it better; with a bit of luck a certain S. African gentleman may put in his tuppence, too .
Let's just say I've had this conversation a few times before...

Originally Posted by SD1too

Simon

[BigBen]

A quick google gave me THIS

Which is basically the same procedure as I use

[SD1too]

Thanks Ben for taking the time and trouble to answer my questions.

I could not have known that you have fitted aftermarket camshafts to your engine when I mentioned the service tool specific to the 190. That modification raises yet more questions and uncertainty which would not help the majority of us with factory-standard engines.

I am also very sorry that you have taken offence at my request to hear your explanation rather than referring me to Trikey who, you have now said, was not involved. I absolutely was not suggesting that you are a liar. I was simply asking you to tell me how you did it.

Thank you for the link to the X-Power forum which I have read. It's the only proper account I have seen and it really does "make a mountain out of a mole hill" as well as sailing quite close to the wind at times, but I don't think that there's anything to be gained by pursuing that further.

Thanks again for your prompt and helpful replies Ben.

Simon

[sworks]

Originally Posted by BigBen

It's quite simple. If you don't undo the bolts on the front cam sprockets there's no need to re-time the cams, so therefore you don't need the tool (and even then it's not that difficult to re-time the cams without it). I've done it 3 times now, so..

If the cam pulleys are left in place a ratchet spanner on the the front cam pulley bolt makes a brilliant locking tool against the slam panel and frees up one hand

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by BigBen

No, it wasn't. There's no reason you can't put the belt on slack and then tension everything up afterwards, so long as all the marks line up. You just need to know how to count teeth.



It is true, as my engine has Piper 270 cams and verniers... it's the tool for the 150/2.0 V6 that will fit the 190 if you reverse the pins on it, it's been done many times.



I only remove the pulley on the inlet side, and use a ratchet with a 19mm deep socket to adjust/hold the exhaust cam; then you can use the tension of the front belt to stop the cam from moving when you tighten the inlet bolt back up (obviously the old main belt before you remove it). The rear belts/pulleys are much easier to line up as the marks are clearly visible, stamped into the pulleys (although a dob of tip-ex can help to make them stand out a bit). Also, due to the rear belt inlet-side pulleys being keyed to the cam they require no special tool to re-fit them correctly.



It's quite simple. If you don't undo the bolts on the front cam sprockets there's no need to re-time the cams, so therefore you don't need the tool (and even then it's not that difficult to re-time the cams without it). I've done it 3 times now, so..

The tool is really an aid for speed of fitment rather than a necessity.

The tone and first part of that paragraph lead me to conclude that you believe me to be a liar. That's fine, I've been called worse - If you don't believe me it's no skin off my nose.

No it wasn't Trikey, it was a good friend of mine who has been a mechanic for over 25 years. The same person with whom I rebuilt the engine and tuned it in 2007. But I have no doubt that Trikey will be able to explain it better; with a bit of luck a certain S. African gentleman may put in his tuppence, too .
Let's just say I've had this conversation a few times before...

How can it be possible that you did this without the tools, and without taking three months to carry out the task, and indeed without discussing the minutiae of INA tensioner adjustment, nor referring to RAVE on mutiple occasions

It has to be said, there is always an alternative to the book, you know it, I know it, hell most people with more experience of working on one car know it...........and it is most refreshing to find the "workarounds"

I take my hat off to you sir

Brian