Go Back   The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > The 75 and ZT Owners Club General Forum
Register FAQ Image Gallery Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 4th December 2019, 12:00   #11
john116
Regular poster
 
Rover 75 Saloon

Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Sydney
Posts: 90
Thanks: 59
Thanked 14 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Or this - genuine Rover: https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-ZUA001550
john116 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2019, 13:03   #12
BigBen
Loves to post
 
BigBen's Avatar
 
MG ZT-T 190+ "Maurice"

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Newport
Posts: 467
Thanks: 90
Thanked 141 Times in 90 Posts
Default

The kit you linked to on eBay is from B S Motors in Sandy. I can tell you from personal experience they're excellent (I used to use them all the time for parts when I lived in Willington, 5 miles down the road) and are also X-Part dealers. In fact "Maurice", my 190 has a genuine kit on him I purchased from them in 2016. Nick at E-CP/B S Motors is a great guy, and very knowledgable.

You don't need the special tools to change the belts, just to line the cams up if you have removed or loosened the front cam pulleys (which you don't need to do for a belt change).

Just make sure you lock the crank in the "safe" position, mark up the cam positions before you remove the belt and make sure everything lines up when you fit the new ones. The rear cam pulleys for the short belts are keyed to the shafts and have timing marks stamped in them; so need no special tools to line them up, either.

You'll need two new bolts for those, though - oh, and plenty of threadlocker!

It's no more difficult than any other twin cam engine, just a bit more time consuming getting to it!

B S also have the standard genuine MG/Rover kit without the thermostat, it's normally about £160.

I personally would not change the thermostat unless it is already leaking, however, as it's a well known weak spot it's always good to have one ready just in case.

The hoses should be fine, the originals are probably higher quality and less likely to fail than anything you replace them with

HTH!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roker View Post
Going to bite the bullet and do a set of overdue cambelts. I am in Australia , so Fleabay will have to suffice for me getting the necessary parts. Had a quick look and there are some mind boggling range of prices and, perhaps, quality as a result. Can someone guide me as to what are the best ( not necessarily cheapest) options for decent parts. I guess, whilst it is in bits that the thermostat piping should also be changed and perhaps even the water pump(?). I see a genuine MGR kit that includes all of these for around £250 plus £40 or so postage to our fair shores. Link as below.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ULTIMATE...IAAOSwbRFayyd~

All hoses look original,so is it worth doing those too for peace of mind?

Any trusted traders that inhabit these forums can supply? Would rather give my business to individuals that contribute to the knowledge here than to a random that couldnt give a stuff once the goods have been sold.

The old girl turned 18 a few weeks ago and only has 67,000km on her and just want to ensure that she doesn't let me down. Using crappy parts will interfere with that strategy.

Thanks guys.
__________________
https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/image.php?u=23989&type=sigpic&dateline=1467731033

Past cars:-
BL: Discovery 3.1 & V8 2WD pick-up, Rover 800 Vitesse Turbo Coupe, 820 SLi 180 Fastback, 600ti, Montego 2.0EFi VDP, Ital 1.3 Estate
Ford: Transit Cosworth V6, Granada 2.9 V6 Scorpio & 2.8 V6 GL
Volvo: 480 Turbo & 1.7 ES, 240 GLE
Porsche: 944 2.7 Lux
Audi: 100 ESE 20v
Peugeot: 405 1.9 GR
Talbot: Alpine 1.6 Rapier S
BigBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th December 2019, 14:40   #13
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model. Rover 3500 Vanden Plas (1984).

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Middlesex
Posts: 16,310
Thanks: 879
Thanked 2,617 Times in 2,268 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
You don't need the special tools to change the belts ... make sure everything lines up when you fit the new ones.
A lot of detail is missing here. Ben, could you explain how you managed to ...
  1. Align the two inlet sprockets and hold them against valve spring pressure whilst simultaneously lacing the new belt as tightly as possible as well as inserting the tensioner body bolts against its hydraulic force, all using just two hands?
  2. Fit the rear sprockets, perfectly aligned, with the new belt not slipping off with one hand whilst the other hand rotates the exhaust camshaft against valve spring pressure into alignment?

Perhaps you had help? Please explain, I would really like to know how it's done.

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SD1too For This Useful Post:
Old 4th December 2019, 23:59   #14
BigBen
Loves to post
 
BigBen's Avatar
 
MG ZT-T 190+ "Maurice"

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Newport
Posts: 467
Thanks: 90
Thanked 141 Times in 90 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
A lot of detail is missing here. Ben, could you explain how you managed to ...
  1. Align the two inlet sprockets and hold them against valve spring pressure whilst simultaneously lacing the new belt as tightly as possible as well as inserting the tensioner body bolts against its hydraulic force, all using just two hands?
  2. Fit the rear sprockets, perfectly aligned, with the new belt not slipping off with one hand whilst the other hand rotates the exhaust camshaft against valve spring pressure into alignment?

Perhaps you had help? Please explain, I would really like to know how it's done.

Simon
There were two of us, and yes it was a pain but not that tricky.

With everything marked up (four marks on each front sprocket, two yellow & two white) with the engine locked in the safe position (so no valve damage can occur) it's quite easy to put the belt on, if you adjust the tensioner afterwards.

I had no choice as the workshop tool won't fit my engine anyway.

The rear sprockets are keyed to the shaft, they're easy enough to hold the exhaust cam in the correct position with a ratchet/socket on the bolt head while someone else slips the other sprocket and belt on.

Turn the engine over a few times by hand just to make sure everything still lines up. (in my case about 12 times forward and backwards just to absolutely check everything!!!)

I'm sure Trikey will be along soon to explain it better than I ever could...
__________________
https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/image.php?u=23989&type=sigpic&dateline=1467731033

Past cars:-
BL: Discovery 3.1 & V8 2WD pick-up, Rover 800 Vitesse Turbo Coupe, 820 SLi 180 Fastback, 600ti, Montego 2.0EFi VDP, Ital 1.3 Estate
Ford: Transit Cosworth V6, Granada 2.9 V6 Scorpio & 2.8 V6 GL
Volvo: 480 Turbo & 1.7 ES, 240 GLE
Porsche: 944 2.7 Lux
Audi: 100 ESE 20v
Peugeot: 405 1.9 GR
Talbot: Alpine 1.6 Rapier S

Last edited by BigBen; 5th December 2019 at 00:09..
BigBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2019, 09:58   #15
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model. Rover 3500 Vanden Plas (1984).

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Middlesex
Posts: 16,310
Thanks: 879
Thanked 2,617 Times in 2,268 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
There were two of us, and yes it was a pain ...
How did you share the tasks? It would be an understatement to say that it was "a pain" for one person to hold two sprocket wheels in a precise position against considerable valve spring pressure with just one hand on each.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
... it's quite easy to put the belt on, if you adjust the tensioner afterwards.
I wasn't asking about adjusting the tensioner Ben. Was the hydraulic casing bolted to the engine at the time that you laced the belt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
I had no choice as the workshop tool won't fit my engine anyway.
That's not true. There is a tool separately available for the 190 engine. Some members say that the spigots on the standard tool can be reversed to achieve the same result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
The rear sprockets are keyed to the shaft, they're easy enough to hold the exhaust cam in the correct position with a ratchet/socket on the bolt head ...
Which bolt head? Did you remove the exhaust cam sprocket to release the belt? Your reply implies that you did. If so, I can't think of a bolt head which you could have used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
I'm sure Trikey will be along soon to explain it better than I ever could.
You claimed to have done it without the tools so I'd like to hear your explanation please. Or are you saying that the person helping you was Trikey?

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.

Last edited by SD1too; 5th December 2019 at 10:01..
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2019, 11:22   #16
BigBen
Loves to post
 
BigBen's Avatar
 
MG ZT-T 190+ "Maurice"

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Newport
Posts: 467
Thanks: 90
Thanked 141 Times in 90 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
How did you share the tasks? It would be an understatement to say that it was "a pain" for one person to hold two sprocket wheels in a precise position against considerable valve spring pressure with just one hand on each.

I wasn't asking about adjusting the tensioner Ben. Was the hydraulic casing bolted to the engine at the time that you laced the belt?
No, it wasn't. There's no reason you can't put the belt on slack and then tension everything up afterwards, so long as all the marks line up. You just need to know how to count teeth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
I had no choice as the workshop tool won't fit my engine anyway.
That's not true. There is a tool separately available for the 190 engine. Some members say that the spigots on the standard tool can be reversed to achieve the same result.
It is true, as my engine has Piper 270 cams and verniers... it's the tool for the 150/2.0 V6 that will fit the 190 if you reverse the pins on it, it's been done many times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
Which bolt head? Did you remove the exhaust cam sprocket to release the belt? Your reply implies that you did. If so, I can't think of a bolt head which you could have used.
I only remove the pulley on the inlet side, and use a ratchet with a 19mm deep socket to adjust/hold the exhaust cam; then you can use the tension of the front belt to stop the cam from moving when you tighten the inlet bolt back up (obviously the old main belt before you remove it). The rear belts/pulleys are much easier to line up as the marks are clearly visible, stamped into the pulleys (although a dob of tip-ex can help to make them stand out a bit). Also, due to the rear belt inlet-side pulleys being keyed to the cam they require no special tool to re-fit them correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
You claimed to have done it without the tools so I'd like to hear your explanation please. Or are you saying that the person helping you was Trikey?
It's quite simple. If you don't undo the bolts on the front cam sprockets there's no need to re-time the cams, so therefore you don't need the tool (and even then it's not that difficult to re-time the cams without it). I've done it 3 times now, so..

The tool is really an aid for speed of fitment rather than a necessity.

The tone and first part of that paragraph lead me to conclude that you believe me to be a liar. That's fine, I've been called worse - If you don't believe me it's no skin off my nose.

No it wasn't Trikey, it was a good friend of mine who has been a mechanic for over 25 years. The same person with whom I rebuilt the engine and tuned it in 2007. But I have no doubt that Trikey will be able to explain it better; with a bit of luck a certain S. African gentleman may put in his tuppence, too .
Let's just say I've had this conversation a few times before...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
Simon
__________________
https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/image.php?u=23989&type=sigpic&dateline=1467731033

Past cars:-
BL: Discovery 3.1 & V8 2WD pick-up, Rover 800 Vitesse Turbo Coupe, 820 SLi 180 Fastback, 600ti, Montego 2.0EFi VDP, Ital 1.3 Estate
Ford: Transit Cosworth V6, Granada 2.9 V6 Scorpio & 2.8 V6 GL
Volvo: 480 Turbo & 1.7 ES, 240 GLE
Porsche: 944 2.7 Lux
Audi: 100 ESE 20v
Peugeot: 405 1.9 GR
Talbot: Alpine 1.6 Rapier S

Last edited by BigBen; 5th December 2019 at 14:05.. Reason: Spelink etc.
BigBen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BigBen For This Useful Post:
Old 5th December 2019, 11:40   #17
BigBen
Loves to post
 
BigBen's Avatar
 
MG ZT-T 190+ "Maurice"

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Newport
Posts: 467
Thanks: 90
Thanked 141 Times in 90 Posts
Default

A quick google gave me THIS

Which is basically the same procedure as I use
__________________
https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/image.php?u=23989&type=sigpic&dateline=1467731033

Past cars:-
BL: Discovery 3.1 & V8 2WD pick-up, Rover 800 Vitesse Turbo Coupe, 820 SLi 180 Fastback, 600ti, Montego 2.0EFi VDP, Ital 1.3 Estate
Ford: Transit Cosworth V6, Granada 2.9 V6 Scorpio & 2.8 V6 GL
Volvo: 480 Turbo & 1.7 ES, 240 GLE
Porsche: 944 2.7 Lux
Audi: 100 ESE 20v
Peugeot: 405 1.9 GR
Talbot: Alpine 1.6 Rapier S
BigBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2019, 17:08   #18
SD1too
Doesn't do things by halves
 
SD1too's Avatar
 
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model. Rover 3500 Vanden Plas (1984).

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Middlesex
Posts: 16,310
Thanks: 879
Thanked 2,617 Times in 2,268 Posts
Default

Thanks Ben for taking the time and trouble to answer my questions.

I could not have known that you have fitted aftermarket camshafts to your engine when I mentioned the service tool specific to the 190. That modification raises yet more questions and uncertainty which would not help the majority of us with factory-standard engines.

I am also very sorry that you have taken offence at my request to hear your explanation rather than referring me to Trikey who, you have now said, was not involved. I absolutely was not suggesting that you are a liar. I was simply asking you to tell me how you did it.

Thank you for the link to the X-Power forum which I have read. It's the only proper account I have seen and it really does "make a mountain out of a mole hill" as well as sailing quite close to the wind at times, but I don't think that there's anything to be gained by pursuing that further.

Thanks again for your prompt and helpful replies Ben.

Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble."
Sir Henry Royce.
SD1too is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2019, 15:16   #19
sworks
Rover Excellence 3%
 
sworks's Avatar
 
Rover 75 Tourer CDTi, 'marmite' contemporary Se, classic JCG mini cooper S works and an R8 coupe

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 12,497
Thanks: 642
Thanked 1,348 Times in 845 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen View Post


It's quite simple. If you don't undo the bolts on the front cam sprockets there's no need to re-time the cams, so therefore you don't need the tool (and even then it's not that difficult to re-time the cams without it). I've done it 3 times now, so..
If the cam pulleys are left in place a ratchet spanner on the the front cam pulley bolt makes a brilliant locking tool against the slam panel and frees up one hand
__________________
.................................................

'Marmite' Possibly one of the most famous 75 tourers produced! left the production line as the last of only Three Rover 75 tourers produced in Trophy Yellow. 48 hours later Longbridge closed. The last sold ordered 75 Tourer. Paid for by the Phoenix Four and handed over by John Towers to the Warwickshire Northampton Air ambulance service as a Rapid Response vehicle

Last edited by sworks; 7th December 2019 at 15:25..
sworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2019, 23:05   #20
marinabrian
Baculum magicum
 
marinabrian's Avatar
 
A few too many

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The People's Republic of North Tyneside
Posts: 18,619
Thanks: 2,816
Thanked 9,010 Times in 4,928 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
No, it wasn't. There's no reason you can't put the belt on slack and then tension everything up afterwards, so long as all the marks line up. You just need to know how to count teeth.



It is true, as my engine has Piper 270 cams and verniers... it's the tool for the 150/2.0 V6 that will fit the 190 if you reverse the pins on it, it's been done many times.



I only remove the pulley on the inlet side, and use a ratchet with a 19mm deep socket to adjust/hold the exhaust cam; then you can use the tension of the front belt to stop the cam from moving when you tighten the inlet bolt back up (obviously the old main belt before you remove it). The rear belts/pulleys are much easier to line up as the marks are clearly visible, stamped into the pulleys (although a dob of tip-ex can help to make them stand out a bit). Also, due to the rear belt inlet-side pulleys being keyed to the cam they require no special tool to re-fit them correctly.



It's quite simple. If you don't undo the bolts on the front cam sprockets there's no need to re-time the cams, so therefore you don't need the tool (and even then it's not that difficult to re-time the cams without it). I've done it 3 times now, so..

The tool is really an aid for speed of fitment rather than a necessity.

The tone and first part of that paragraph lead me to conclude that you believe me to be a liar. That's fine, I've been called worse - If you don't believe me it's no skin off my nose.

No it wasn't Trikey, it was a good friend of mine who has been a mechanic for over 25 years. The same person with whom I rebuilt the engine and tuned it in 2007. But I have no doubt that Trikey will be able to explain it better; with a bit of luck a certain S. African gentleman may put in his tuppence, too .
Let's just say I've had this conversation a few times before...
How can it be possible that you did this without the tools, and without taking three months to carry out the task, and indeed without discussing the minutiae of INA tensioner adjustment, nor referring to RAVE on mutiple occasions

It has to be said, there is always an alternative to the book, you know it, I know it, hell most people with more experience of working on one car know it...........and it is most refreshing to find the "workarounds"

I take my hat off to you sir

Brian
__________________
Almost at the end of the road........and I can categorically state this is NOT my second home

Sent from my Jupiter Ace running a 16k RAM pack and Chuck Moore FORTH
marinabrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2006-2019, The Rover 75 & MG ZT Owners Club Ltd