Got a cheap welder...

bikerdude666 · 9th February 2017, 19:59

For Christmas my dad got me a cheap little arc welder, just something to have a play around with. Finally got round to ordering some rods for it and had a little play around with it today. I tried the thickest rods that came, but they kept sticking to the steel, so had a go with a thinner rod, more successfully, but still an atrocious weld! Looked like it cleaned up ok, but once clamped to the bench, 3 blows with a lump hammer and it was soon apart again! Looking at it, the weld hadn't gone much below the surface of the metal. I foresee some long nights in the garage, welding random bits of metal together.

The set only came with a handheld mask, so I'll have to get a proper 1, and have a play around with the amp setting to try and get a decent arc but without melting through the steel like I did today. Also need to find something to use as a bench to weld on, managed to get a few little flames on the workmate today... Thankfully I keep bottles of water in the garage for just such an occasion.

Might look and see if I can find a course at the local college.

Anyway, here's a few photos of the fantastic first weld

And after attempting to clean it up:

RobSun · 9th February 2017, 22:06

As a rule of thumb the min thickness of metal a rod will work on is its dia. Therefore a 10 gauge 3.2mm min thickness is 3.2mm or 1/8" . For this rod run it at 130 amps for starters certainly on thicker than 1/8 and lower it a bit at a time until you get a good run without burning through or sticking. Generally on 1/8" thick use a 2.5mm rod and 60 to 90 amps.

All welding rods are not the same. Some are much easier to use and give better control. Some can be used in contact,ie no arc gap but need high skills to control in position. Others are of very high quality and cost a lot more but are much better in position and can be used vertical down (called stove welding) and so much easier in inexperienced hands. These are often used by maintenance fitters who need to have a range of skills.

Arc welding is generally not done on thin sheet like bodywork because it creates to much heat and it is difficult to control and not burn through. I have seen it done in sheet metal fabricators and shipyards using 1.5mm high quality products by very skilled welders. MIG is the preferred way now, or oxy acetylene and some will use TIG but that is mainly used in high quality welding of more exotic metals.

spyder · 9th February 2017, 22:36

Get a solar helmet that will darken instantly, it will save you the discomfort of arc eyes and help the quality of your welding.

Store the welding rods in a dry place.

Welding is stitching the metal together using a side to side and then downward movement, don't just try and run the rod directly with the joint.

My two cents worth.

trikey · 10th February 2017, 01:51

If the rods are sticking when you spark up, crank up the amps as you will be a litttle low.

barney bear · 10th February 2017, 04:43

If you are using 6013 rods you will have a lot of slag build up in the weld while you're learning, I know this through experience as I bought myself a cheap arc welder last year as well

Buy some good quality rods and avoid Machine Mart ones like the plague, I found my welds improved a lot when I invested in some halfway decent rods.

bikerdude666 · 10th February 2017, 19:16

Thanks, for the replies and advice, any links to some 'decent' welding rods? The 1's I got were off eBay, got some 1.5mm, 2mm, and 2.5mm about £5 for 20 and yes they are marked 6013. The welder is really cheap, so only goes up to around 100 amps, so won't be welding anything very thick, is more just to play with than to actually use. I've found a couple of good guides online that I'll print out and keep on the garage. Hopefully get a bit more time next week as I'm on nights so can have a play before my eldest gets home from school.

I think I'll get a proper mask, the handheld 1 is too awkward, screwfix have got this which doesn't seem bad: http://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-auto...et-black/8591j

Any suggestions on best work surface to weld on? I'm guessing some painted metal sheet?

barney bear · 10th February 2017, 20:12

That's pretty much the same helmet I got, sounds like the same elder as well

BOC sell good rods but they only sell them by weight so you'll end up paying almost as much for rods as the welder cost, if you have a welding supply shop near you then they will sell decent stuff and will probably sell them by the bundle.

As for the bench I'm just using some treated plywood on top of my workbench at the minute, no fires yet although I have scorched it really well, anything I'm welding flat I just put a bit of plate steel below the actual weld path to absorb most of the heat.

bikerdude666 · 10th February 2017, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by barney bear

That's pretty much the same helmet I got, sounds like the same elder as well

BOC sell good rods but they only sell them by weight so you'll end up paying almost as much for rods as the welder cost, if you have a welding supply shop near you then they will sell decent stuff and will probably sell them by the bundle.

As for the bench I'm just using some treated plywood on top of my workbench at the minute, no fires yet although I have scorched it really well, anything I'm welding flat I just put a bit of plate steel below the actual weld path to absorb most of the heat.

This is the welder: https://www.amazon.co.uk/VonHaus-Lig.../dp/B00H8MZCY2

It no longer seems to be sold anywhere, so guess it's pretty rubbish!
I scorched the workmate, and then didn't want to put it on the worktop. I've got some small sheets of metal, not sure what exactly it is, but the welder didn't like it so guess it's not steel, maybe I can just put a couple of sheets of that down before doing anything.

Bought some lengths of box section to have a bash with, and a nice new blade for my mitre saw to cut them up with. Really going to have to hide my wallet from myself soon!

*edit* No idea if there are any welding supply shops around here, bar the usual screwfix/toolstation type of thing. I'd guess with the amount of little industrial units round here there must be 1 relatively close.Will have to have a look.

spyder · 10th February 2017, 21:42

The helmet will do the job, albeit a bit heavy. Check which setting work best for you.

A good 3/4" steel bench without a painted surface is good to weld onto but a bit impractical for what you need. I have a ceran top cut-out from a sink that works very well for small jobs. A good flat concrete floor for larger jobs.

A good fire extinguisher close at hand is a good idea.

bikerdude666 · 19th February 2017, 18:49

Ended up getting a mask off eBay, along with a leather apron and gloves, and had another go on Friday, still not great obviously, but it certainly seems an improvement. Can't break these apart this time, hitting the box section repeatedly with a lump hammer and it's still holding fairly firm, but I think there is a tiny crack appearing. Enjoying it at the moment, was out there for about 4 hours, just cutting up bits of metal and welding together, cutting it again and welding again. Didn't realise just how much smoke it creates until I turned round to go back in the house and saw the haze all through the garage.

9th February 2017, 19:59	#1
bikerdude666 Posted a thing or two Jaguar Xe diseasal Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Little Stanion, Corby Posts: 1,922 Thanks: 363 Thanked 390 Times in 241 Posts	Got a cheap welder... For Christmas my dad got me a cheap little arc welder, just something to have a play around with. Finally got round to ordering some rods for it and had a little play around with it today. I tried the thickest rods that came, but they kept sticking to the steel, so had a go with a thinner rod, more successfully, but still an atrocious weld! Looked like it cleaned up ok, but once clamped to the bench, 3 blows with a lump hammer and it was soon apart again! Looking at it, the weld hadn't gone much below the surface of the metal. I foresee some long nights in the garage, welding random bits of metal together. The set only came with a handheld mask, so I'll have to get a proper 1, and have a play around with the amp setting to try and get a decent arc but without melting through the steel like I did today. Also need to find something to use as a bench to weld on, managed to get a few little flames on the workmate today... Thankfully I keep bottles of water in the garage for just such an occasion. Might look and see if I can find a course at the local college. Anyway, here's a few photos of the fantastic first weld And after attempting to clean it up:

9th February 2017, 22:36	#3
spyder This is my second home 75 CDT Auto Tourer , Rover 45 , Astra, Zaffira, Chev Captiva Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Wilts Posts: 3,342 Thanks: 203 Thanked 436 Times in 360 Posts	Get a solar helmet that will darken instantly, it will save you the discomfort of arc eyes and help the quality of your welding. Store the welding rods in a dry place. Welding is stitching the metal together using a side to side and then downward movement, don't just try and run the rod directly with the joint. My two cents worth. __________________ Chrome skull caps, EGR cleaned (original housing), Mondeo lower mounting, 12V outlets in the armrest and tourer boot, cat fixed, working FBH, Lidl plenum covers, DD with reverse camera.New speakesr/Tweeters with MDF rings. wood dash, Memory leather seats, wooden finished steering and handbrake, Xenon headlights.

10th February 2017, 01:51	#4
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,773 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	If the rods are sticking when you spark up, crank up the amps as you will be a litttle low. __________________ Lest we forget..

10th February 2017, 04:43	#5
barney bear This is my second home rover 75 Connoiseur diesel called Rosey Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Preston Posts: 8,096 Thanks: 1,878 Thanked 2,001 Times in 1,424 Posts	If you are using 6013 rods you will have a lot of slag build up in the weld while you're learning, I know this through experience as I bought myself a cheap arc welder last year as well Buy some good quality rods and avoid Machine Mart ones like the plague, I found my welds improved a lot when I invested in some halfway decent rods. __________________ It is NEVER your fault, do not believe her when she says it is Real name Tony http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5l6mhpix.jpg

10th February 2017, 20:12	#7
barney bear This is my second home rover 75 Connoiseur diesel called Rosey Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Preston Posts: 8,096 Thanks: 1,878 Thanked 2,001 Times in 1,424 Posts	That's pretty much the same helmet I got, sounds like the same elder as well BOC sell good rods but they only sell them by weight so you'll end up paying almost as much for rods as the welder cost, if you have a welding supply shop near you then they will sell decent stuff and will probably sell them by the bundle. As for the bench I'm just using some treated plywood on top of my workbench at the minute, no fires yet although I have scorched it really well, anything I'm welding flat I just put a bit of plate steel below the actual weld path to absorb most of the heat. __________________ It is NEVER your fault, do not believe her when she says it is Real name Tony http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5l6mhpix.jpg

9th February 2017, 22:06	#2
RobSun Gets stuck in MGZTT Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Bradford Posts: 529 Thanks: 148 Thanked 256 Times in 138 Posts	As a rule of thumb the min thickness of metal a rod will work on is its dia. Therefore a 10 gauge 3.2mm min thickness is 3.2mm or 1/8" . For this rod run it at 130 amps for starters certainly on thicker than 1/8 and lower it a bit at a time until you get a good run without burning through or sticking. Generally on 1/8" thick use a 2.5mm rod and 60 to 90 amps. All welding rods are not the same. Some are much easier to use and give better control. Some can be used in contact,ie no arc gap but need high skills to control in position. Others are of very high quality and cost a lot more but are much better in position and can be used vertical down (called stove welding) and so much easier in inexperienced hands. These are often used by maintenance fitters who need to have a range of skills. Arc welding is generally not done on thin sheet like bodywork because it creates to much heat and it is difficult to control and not burn through. I have seen it done in sheet metal fabricators and shipyards using 1.5mm high quality products by very skilled welders. MIG is the preferred way now, or oxy acetylene and some will use TIG but that is mainly used in high quality welding of more exotic metals.

10th February 2017, 19:16	#6
bikerdude666 Posted a thing or two Jaguar Xe diseasal Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Little Stanion, Corby Posts: 1,922 Thanks: 363 Thanked 390 Times in 241 Posts	Thanks, for the replies and advice, any links to some 'decent' welding rods? The 1's I got were off eBay, got some 1.5mm, 2mm, and 2.5mm about £5 for 20 and yes they are marked 6013. The welder is really cheap, so only goes up to around 100 amps, so won't be welding anything very thick, is more just to play with than to actually use. I've found a couple of good guides online that I'll print out and keep on the garage. Hopefully get a bit more time next week as I'm on nights so can have a play before my eldest gets home from school. I think I'll get a proper mask, the handheld 1 is too awkward, screwfix have got this which doesn't seem bad: http://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-auto...et-black/8591j Any suggestions on best work surface to weld on? I'm guessing some painted metal sheet?

10th February 2017, 21:42	#9
spyder This is my second home 75 CDT Auto Tourer , Rover 45 , Astra, Zaffira, Chev Captiva Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Wilts Posts: 3,342 Thanks: 203 Thanked 436 Times in 360 Posts	The helmet will do the job, albeit a bit heavy. Check which setting work best for you. A good 3/4" steel bench without a painted surface is good to weld onto but a bit impractical for what you need. I have a ceran top cut-out from a sink that works very well for small jobs. A good flat concrete floor for larger jobs. A good fire extinguisher close at hand is a good idea. __________________ Chrome skull caps, EGR cleaned (original housing), Mondeo lower mounting, 12V outlets in the armrest and tourer boot, cat fixed, working FBH, Lidl plenum covers, DD with reverse camera.New speakesr/Tweeters with MDF rings. wood dash, Memory leather seats, wooden finished steering and handbrake, Xenon headlights.

19th February 2017, 18:49	#10
bikerdude666 Posted a thing or two Jaguar Xe diseasal Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Little Stanion, Corby Posts: 1,922 Thanks: 363 Thanked 390 Times in 241 Posts	Ended up getting a mask off eBay, along with a leather apron and gloves, and had another go on Friday, still not great obviously, but it certainly seems an improvement. Can't break these apart this time, hitting the box section repeatedly with a lump hammer and it's still holding fairly firm, but I think there is a tiny crack appearing. Enjoying it at the moment, was out there for about 4 hours, just cutting up bits of metal and welding together, cutting it again and welding again. Didn't realise just how much smoke it creates until I turned round to go back in the house and saw the haze all through the garage.