We think our cars are expensive...

[rab60bit]

We visited a friend this morning and over coffee mentioned her brake warning light had come on during a recent journey - it's a Porsche Macan 3L petrol job which she's had from new in 2018 and it's done about 24K. Being a 12 month widow she didn't ask any advice and just booked it in with her dealership. I didn't get all the details from her but £1600 later the brake light is now 'off' - and she 'thought' all the pads had been changed.
Out of interest I made a quick check out on the cost of an OEM set of front pads (with wear indicators), £70! Set of rears can only be less but lets call it £150 for all 4 corners. Book time for a pad change (at a dealership with all the kit/experience) I'm guessing max. 2-3 hours @£130/hour.
I get that to around £550...say we round that up to £600 for a spit and polish before it goes back to the customer. Unless there was another issue (or maybe they fitted new discs as well) how can they reasonably charge that sort of money?

[MSS]

Our cars are actually very cheap to maintain. As are most cars of the same era e.g Vauxhall Omega, Astra, Ingsignia, Ford Focus, Mondeo etc. This is because a) parts are cheap and b) people no longer pay main dealer rates for work on these cars.

Let's face it, our cars and those above are not the equivalent of a modern Porche, Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW and so on that is maintained by a dealership or a specialist.

Some people would moan at the expense even if the dealers serviced and repaired their cars for free. They would probably moan for the lack of a complimentary wash and polish with the free service. Others would not. Humans are a funny species!

[rab60bit]

Originally Posted by MSS

Our cars are actually very cheap to maintain. As are most cars of the same era e.g Vauxhall Omega, Astra, Ingsignia, Ford Focus, Mondeo etc. This is because a) parts are cheap and b) people no longer pay main dealer rates for work on these cars.

Let's face it, our cars and those above are not the equivalent of a modern Porche, Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW and so on that is maintained by a dealership or a specialist.

Some people would moan at the expense even if the dealers serviced and repaired their cars for free. They would probably moan for the lack of a complimentary wash and polish with the free service. Others would not. Humans are a funny species!

Just paid a little under £180 for an 'OEM' intermediate exhaust section and clamp, cheap!!

[MSS]

Originally Posted by rab60bit

Just paid a little under £180 for an 'OEM' intermediate exhaust section and clamp, cheap!!

Yes. Cars have been relatively cheap to buy, maintain and run during the past 20ish years. This has created a real problem in towns and cities because some households are able to afford 2-3 cars despite not having to space to park. Buying and running a car was a major financial undertaking during the 1970's and 1980's and many families did not own a single car.

The other problem these days is that people expect to pay little for parts, hence so much rubbish being produced and sold that does not last. A complete exhaust costing say £500 to £700 but designed to last 10-12 years would actually be better value than a cheap system.

It feels to me that the situation is now staring to correct itself.

[coolguy]

Originally Posted by MSS

The other problem these days is that people expect to pay little for parts, hence so much rubbish being produced and sold that does not last. A complete exhaust costing say £500 to £700 but designed to last 10-12 years would actually be better value than a cheap system.

It feels to me that the situation is now staring to correct itself.

BUT nobody expects to keep a car for 10+ years these days - I am amazed at the number of cars advertised for sale that have numerous owners in the first few years of life.
Regarding prices, the mark up on parts is reputed to be 400% - source - a close friend and previous Quality Director at Ford - which probably explains the poor maintenance of many cars.

[MSS]

It's never as simple as that. Mark up is normally a ratio of the sale price to buy price. But a car manufacturer has to hold and manage inventory for at least 10 years after the car ceases production. This carries a huge cost.

The fact most car makers make make losses or only marginal profits demonstrates that their net profits are very low or negative!

There is only really one way to achieve low end prices for parts - to produce tat and do so only for the period that large volume sales are available. This would be unsustainable for a car manufacturer but is the business model of most producers of copied parts sold at low prices.

Most parts sold for our cars these days fall into the tat category in my view. This is why they do not last. Also, people are not paying main dealer prices.

I can remember horror stories of extortionate dealer charges for Rover 75 repairs and service when they were nearly new. Comparing costs of owning/maintaining a 3 year old Porche and a 20 year old 75 is just not a valid comparison or relevant. Comparison with a 20 year old Omega would be valid. I do make such comparisons as I own both and the Omega has worked out to be cheaper overall because it is still possible to buy most OEM parts from Vauxhall or the likes of Lemforder.

[clf]

Originally Posted by rab60bit

We visited a friend this morning and over coffee mentioned her brake warning light had come on during a recent journey - it's a Porsche Macan 3L petrol job which she's had from new in 2018 and it's done about 24K. Being a 12 month widow she didn't ask any advice and just booked it in with her dealership. I didn't get all the details from her but £1600 later the brake light is now 'off' - and she 'thought' all the pads had been changed.

Out of interest I made a quick check out on the cost of an OEM set of front pads (with wear indicators), £70! Set of rears can only be less but lets call it £150 for all 4 corners. Book time for a pad change (at a dealership with all the kit/experience) I'm guessing max. 2-3 hours @£130/hour.

I get that to around £550...say we round that up to £600 for a spit and polish before it goes back to the customer. Unless there was another issue (or maybe they fitted new discs as well) how can they reasonably charge that sort of money?

You forgot to consider the opening the diagnostic machine cabinet is not included in the labour charge, then the connection to the obd socket, again, this is not included in the labour charge. There is no charge for the return to the cabinet of the equipment.

We also have to charge for the labour of the cleaner, who swept up the dust from under your car when it drove onto the ramps. There is no minute charge, minimum is per hour.

Hazard pay is since our technicians are not Mechanics, they demand hazard pay every time they put on rubber gloves.

Unfortunately windows 7, which is what the older (pre 2020) cars' diagnostic system.runs on, is no longer updated by Microsoft, we have to use an offline server, which costs £70 per hour to run. But since our technician is only trained in windows 10, he struggled with the start menu button, and waited for it to load the diagnostic - this took 65mins for him.to realise that he had to click on the icon on the start menu. That will be why there is 2 hours labour.

You will notice in the parts listed, there is only one item, it could have been a number of items, like brake pads and discs, which would have been expensive. But you will be glad to know, that it was only a slight break in the wire, which what the 'length of tape' refers to. I know 70 pounds seems a lot for a bit of tape, and i know it took a week to get the tape, but it was direct from.the factory, and it is genuine Porsche tape. We did consider using solder and heat shrink, but we were trying to keep your costs down.

Not itemised (as it is covered under the first pair) is the second pair of gloves, which the technician had to fit, since the Porsche tape is very sticky, well it has to be, it is exposed to the elements and rubs against the suspension strut. Bad design I know, but it's a porsche, what are you going to do? They know best. Anyway, the technician damaged the gloves on your tape, so need to replace the gloves. Yes, it was a double hazard payment. It could have been worse if he had got it on his skin. He would have been off sick.with the trauma. Thankfully that didnt happen, that would have added £1200 for the first week he was off sick, then 600 for every week after. This would.have been charged as.a.weekly rate, as there is no.part week rate on the system.

I know you could have fixed this outside your house with a bit of electrical tape, and improved it with a cable tie, but then when it comes to selling your vehicle, you would not have the invoice to state that it was repaired using genuine porsche parts at a porsche dealership.

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Seriously though, I do hope they gave her an itemised invoice (did you check.for.her if the pads were new). I would imagine that pads would retail at quite a bit more than 70 quid from a dealer.

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[SD1too]

Originally Posted by rab60bit

... how can they reasonably charge that sort of money?

Because it's a Porsche John. Their customers can afford it.

Simon

[MSS]

John - you have all the qualities to manage a premium car dealership with 17 year olds as your master technicians. Although I think you may have undercharged on the consumables!

Originally Posted by SD1too

Because it's a Porsche John. Their customers can afford it.

Simon

Simon - your thinking qualifies you for membership to the brotherhood. This is how pricing should be structured for everything in life. Affordability based pricing is the way forward.

[stocktake]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Because it's a Porsche John. Their customers can afford it.

Simon

My son has only one thing in his life that he covets, an old 04 reg porsche cayenne V8. its not worth a lot but through all his ups and downs its been his outlet.
Mot this year and the only thing it needed was the flexi on the exhaust and a power steering pipe was showing signs of rust. That's where the problem lies as to get to it all the cross member has to come out along with a host of other things and only a Porsche garage will undertake it. They worked on the car for four days. He ( well if i'm being honest, I ) got a fiver change out of three Grand !!!