Beware potential scam

Mr bountyfull · 25th February 2022, 19:37

Please be aware that this may be a scam.

I know the winner of the previous bid and the buyer was seeking full payment before collection. An offer of deposit was made and there were multiple attempts to contact seller to arrange collection. No reply's from seller.

Seller now states "Here we go again.....the usual dreamers that bid last minute, then disappear !"

Be careful folks

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MGZT-T-MG...0/224855689818

macafee2 · 25th February 2022, 20:40

why do you think it is a scam as advert also says "Viewing before action ends......not afterwards please." and "Payment and collection inside 2 days please unless otherwise agreed."

macafee2

Mr bountyfull · 25th February 2022, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by macafee2

why do you think it is a scam as advert also says "Viewing before action ends......not afterwards please." and "Payment and collection inside 2 days please unless otherwise agreed."

macafee2

The original sale never made these conditions, the seller chose to cancel the sale for his own reason which from his point may be valid.

Everything stated by me in my original post is factual. Feel free to bid all I am doing is giving warning where this warning may allow others to tread carefully. If the seller is completely genuine then he made an error as I was booked to assist in the cars collection tomorrow. He would have had the fee as stated as the wining bid in his bank tomorrow if the car was as described.

clf · 25th February 2022, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr bountyfull

Please be aware that this may be a scam.

I know the winner of the previous bid and the buyer was seeking full payment before collection. An offer of deposit was made and there were multiple attempts to contact seller to arrange collection. No reply's from seller.

Seller now states "Here we go again.....the usual dreamers that bid last minute, then disappear !"

Be careful folks

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MGZT-T-MG...0/224855689818

As Macafee points out, 'full payment and collection within two days' and 'viewing before the auction not after'. These are relatively standard requests on vehicle sales.

Your friend entered into a contract to pay an agreed amount (as with all ebay auctions). This is the price he has agreed to pay. I assume from a reader's point of view, he has viewed the car, and was happy with the condition. Therefore the bid he has offered (and won at), is the price he is contracted to and should pay.

If he has not viewed the car prior to bidding, he is still contracting himself to pay the amount based upon the pictures and description, unless he came to a prior agreement with the seller. This is NOT the seller's problem. The seller is more or less demanding a potential bidder views before bidding an amount the bidder is happy to pay for what they saw. What happens, (and I suspect what your friend was expecting to do), someone will bid, win, then try to knock off money for any issues (in the opinion of the bidder) on collection and payment of any balance. This not only wastes the seller's time, but also costs the seller money (ebay fees). The only way the bidder can avoid paying the amount agreed (contracted), is if the car was not as described. Viewing prior will eliminate any difference of opinion.

As I understand it, the seller could now pursue any winning bidder for the winning bid amount. I believe the wording of the ad would stand up in court. Although I think the fair thing to do would be for the seller to request any costs incurred from your friend (ebay fees). The seller may now have lost the chance to buy a replacement car, as they have to relist the ZTT.

It is not a scam. It was an unfair and unreasonable of your friend.

EDIT after post 3: if the terms were not listed, as I understand it, your friend is still liable for the full amount, providing the car was as described. I do not understand what the issue was though with him going to collect within a couple of days anyway (even if this time scale was not specified), it is not unreasonable. But it surely is only good sense to view before bidding anyway?

victorgte · 25th February 2022, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr bountyfull

Please be aware that this may be a scam.

I know the winner of the previous bid and the buyer was seeking full payment before collection. An offer of deposit was made and there were multiple attempts to contact seller to arrange collection. No reply's from seller.

Seller now states "Here we go again.....the usual dreamers that bid last minute, then disappear !"

Be careful folks

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MGZT-T-MG...0/224855689818

I can see a scam. Pretty clear to me.
A demand for full payment BEFORE collection.
Son in law did this last year and lost £4.5k as the seller disappeared and so did the ad.
I would turn up for collection as agreed with notes in my hand or transfer the money in front of the seller before driving it home.
Anything else I would be wary.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Mr bountyfull · 25th February 2022, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by clf

As Macafee points out, 'full payment and collection within two days' and 'viewing before the auction not after'. These are relatively standard requests on vehicle sales.

Your friend entered into a contract to pay an agreed amount (as with all ebay auctions). This is the price he has agreed to pay. I assume from a reader's point of view, he has viewed the car, and was happy with the condition. Therefore the bid he has offered (and won at), is the price he is contracted to and should pay.

If he has not viewed the car prior to bidding, he is still contracting himself to pay the amount based upon the pictures and description, unless he came to a prior agreement with the seller. This is NOT the seller's problem. The seller is more or less demanding a potential bidder views before bidding an amount the bidder is happy to pay for what they saw. What happens, (and I suspect what your friend was expecting to do), someone will bid, win, then try to knock off money for any issues (in the opinion of the bidder) on collection and payment of any balance. This not only wastes the seller's time, but also costs the seller money (ebay fees). The only way the bidder can avoid paying the amount agreed (contracted), is if the car was not as described. Viewing prior will eliminate any difference of opinion.

As I understand it, the seller could now pursue any winning bidder for the winning bid amount. I believe the wording of the ad would stand up in court. Although I think the fair thing to do would be for the seller to request any costs incurred from your friend (ebay fees). The seller may now have lost the chance to buy a replacement car, as they have to relist the ZTT.

It is not a scam. It was an unfair and unreasonable of your friend.

EDIT after post 3: if the terms were not listed, as I understand it, your friend is still liable for the full amount, providing the car was as described. I do not understand what the issue was though with him going to collect within a couple of days anyway (even if this time scale was not specified), it is not unreasonable. But it surely is only good sense to view before bidding anyway?

When the bid was won it was made clear that we could not collect until tomorrow Saturday, Due to location and work constraints it was impossible to view the car.
Regarding being liable to the full amount yes that is correct and it was communicated that he would be paid in full tomorrow with a deposit in advance. That the winner of the bid never received any communication back regarding this (which we see as being reasonable) how would you make any progress?. As far as I know initial communications post sale were positive with nothing suggesting collection would not happen tomorrow, then no communication to three attempts to finalise a suitable deposit and collection arrangements. If the original advert had been worded as now at the initial bidding the approach would have been different but no doubt we could be collecting the car tomorrow if all was above board.

Again I an not stating there is something under hand only that members here should be careful given the withdraw with no further communication with the bid winner. It does look a good car and the bidder is disappointed and made communication with the seller stating his disappointment.

Ducati750cc · 25th February 2022, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr bountyfull

Please be aware that this may be a scam.

I know the winner of the previous bid and the buyer was seeking full payment before collection. An offer of deposit was made and there were multiple attempts to contact seller to arrange collection. No reply's from seller.

Seller now states "Here we go again.....the usual dreamers that bid last minute, then disappear !"

Be careful folks

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MGZT-T-MG...0/224855689818

For a scammer, he appears to have good feedback!

Mr bountyfull · 25th February 2022, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducati750cc

For a scammer, he appears to have good feedback!

True but so would a good scammer, don't you think? Again the sale may be completely genuine but would rather give members here a better start if buying the car.

MSS · 25th February 2022, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr bountyfull

True but so would a good scammer, don't you think? Again the sale may be completely genuine but would rather give members here a better start if buying the car.

When you say '....was communicated to him' (the seller), did the seller respond accepting your friend's proposed way of payment/collection? If so, he should have been asked to update the listing to include those terms

From what you have written in the posts above, it is equally likely that your friend was trying to scam the seller by wishing to inspect the car and then determine whether he wished to go ahead with the purchase at the contracted price even though by bidding, he has already committed to buy on the basis of whatever due diligence he wished to carry out.

As a general rule, if you are concerned about the condition of a car, view it prior to bidding and take photographs of the condition in case any disagreements arise later. If you bid without viewing, do the seller the courtesy of completing the purchase.

I would also say that it is most unreasonable to identify a car's seller and suggest that his selling activity may be a scam on a public forum unless there is positive evidence of scamming activity.

Mr bountyfull · 25th February 2022, 23:36

People will have to make their own mind up on this as said there may or may not be a scam on the sellers part.

I can assure you the winning bidder of the original sale was no scammer. Parties on here who have had dealings with me would hopefully see me as a honest member on here. For all I know the seller may be also on here and completely genuine. Again only trying to provide a degree of questioning to members on here if they seek to buy this car. I would hate to find out a member on here being scammed (If a scam) and me being in a position to provide a heads up.

Everyone is entitled to there view on this thread, no more to say after this post.

25th February 2022, 19:37	#1
Mr bountyfull Gets stuck in MGZTV8 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Newbury Posts: 567 Thanks: 173 Thanked 82 Times in 58 Posts	Beware potential scam Please be aware that this may be a scam. I know the winner of the previous bid and the buyer was seeking full payment before collection. An offer of deposit was made and there were multiple attempts to contact seller to arrange collection. No reply's from seller. Seller now states "Here we go again.....the usual dreamers that bid last minute, then disappear !" Be careful folks https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MGZT-T-MG...0/224855689818

25th February 2022, 20:40	#2
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,912 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	why do you think it is a scam as advert also says "Viewing before action ends......not afterwards please." and "Payment and collection inside 2 days please unless otherwise agreed." macafee2

25th February 2022, 23:36	#10
Mr bountyfull Gets stuck in MGZTV8 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Newbury Posts: 567 Thanks: 173 Thanked 82 Times in 58 Posts	People will have to make their own mind up on this as said there may or may not be a scam on the sellers part. I can assure you the winning bidder of the original sale was no scammer. Parties on here who have had dealings with me would hopefully see me as a honest member on here. For all I know the seller may be also on here and completely genuine. Again only trying to provide a degree of questioning to members on here if they seek to buy this car. I would hate to find out a member on here being scammed (If a scam) and me being in a position to provide a heads up. Everyone is entitled to there view on this thread, no more to say after this post.