V6 screw up

[kaiser]

Then just find the cylinder giving trouble and take it from there!
Don't worry about the cam.

[jens_munk]

Will do, unless I give up and send it off to the junk yard

Originally Posted by kaiser

Then just find the cylinder giving trouble and take it from there!
Don't worry about the cam.

[kaiser]

know the feeling!! believe me, but then it is fixed, and it becomes a friend again.

[jens_munk]

Yes, we will see. If it is something external like coils, injectors, cables or so that just didn't like to be touched, I will fix it. If it is screwed up internally, it will go. After all it is 19 years, has 210.000 km on the clock and starting so show some rust mainly on suspension parts.

Originally Posted by kaiser

know the feeling!! believe me, but then it is fixed, and it becomes a friend again.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by jens_munk

... (with the tool in the front end), and with the guide pin in ...

Originally Posted by jens_munk

I did buy a set of tools, but besides the locking pin, I ended up not using it.

So you didn’t use them besides:

1. The locking pin
2. The guide pins
3. The exhaust camshaft turning tool

Why then, did you buy that generic claw tool requiring an assistant when you could have done the job single-handed using all the service tools?

You still haven’t explained how you kept the rear belt and sprockets assembly intact whilst manoeuvring it onto the camshaft ends. Did you use the spreader and holding tool from your set?

Simon

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by jens_munk

If it is screwed up internally, it will go.

Jens; a likely possibility is that you’ve “screwed up” the valve timing slightly by not fully using the special tools, but the engine runs so that can be fixed.

After all it is 19 years, has 210.000 km on the clock and starting so show some rust mainly on suspension parts.

So what? My car is 19 years old too and is in better condition than many less than half its age. 126,000 miles is nothing for a well maintained engine and show me a car which doesn’t have surface rust on suspension parts.

Don’t talk yourself into abandoning it just because you haven’t got the timing belts right. Did you set up the tensioner pulley properly which is not mentioned in Haynes or RAVE? That could be your problem.

Simon

[jens_munk]

To me it really appeared more complicated to use the tools. It is not an original Rover kit but a Chinese knock off - maybe that made a difference.


The guide pin was enough, which is also what Haynes say. The belts fits snug, but you are not stretching them. Really, these two belts appeared the least troublesome.

Originally Posted by SD1too

So you didn’t use them besides:

1. The locking pin
2. The guide pins
3. The exhaust camshaft turning tool

Why then, did you buy that generic claw tool requiring an assistant when you could have done the job single-handed using all the service tools?

You still haven’t explained how you kept the rear belt and sprockets assembly intact whilst manoeuvring it onto the camshaft ends. Did you use the spreader and holding tool from your set?

Simon

[jens_munk]

Yes, I did actually note the instructions that came with the new tensioner and I followed them carefully. And yes I also noted that none of the references mentioned it, which is really bad because the bolt isn't even torqued enough.

Originally Posted by SD1too

Jens; a likely possibility is that you’ve “screwed up” the valve timing slightly by not fully using the special tools, but the engine runs so that can be fixed.

So what? My car is 19 years old too and is in better condition than many less than half its age. 126,000 miles is nothing for a well maintained engine and show me a car which doesn’t have surface rust on suspension parts.

Don’t talk yourself into abandoning it just because you haven’t got the timing belts right. Did you set up the tensioner pulley properly which is not mentioned in Haynes or RAVE? That could be your problem.

Simon

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by jens_munk

To me it really appeared more complicated to use the tools.

It’s not.

It is not an original Rover kit but a Chinese knock off ..

Hardly anyone has the Rover tools used by dealers. The Laser, AST and Sealey kits may not be as good but they work. It’s never a good idea to buy the cheapest tools, if that’s what you mean by “Chinese knock off”.

The guide pin was enough, which is also what Haynes say. The belts fits snug, but you are not stretching them.

Sorry Jens, the rear belt does have to be tensioned (stretched) between precisely aligned rear sprockets prior and during fitting. Haynes says: “This will require some effort to overcome the tension of a new belt ..”. That’s an understatement. I’d say it’s impossible without either the belt or one or both sprockets moving. After you’d done this, did you reinsert the flywheel locking pin and check that the notches on the rear sprockets were misaligned by the same amount as they were before you started? They should not be exactly opposite each other as the manuals claim.

Originally Posted by jens_munk

.. I did actually note the instructions that came with the new tensioner and I followed them carefully.

Good, you can discount that possibility then.

Jens, it’s obviously too much of a coincidence that, after renewing timing belts, you just happen to have a firing problem on one cylinder. Providing you didn’t forget to reconnect one of the injector loom plugs after the thermostat work, the indications are that you’ve upset the camshaft timing by thinking that you can do without the service tools which were designed to ensure that this cannot happen. If you don’t trust your Chinese kit, write it off to experience and buy a set from AST, Sealey or Laser to find out where you went wrong. You probably have an error on the front belt too as it is extremely physically taxing for one person to hold both sprockets precisely in position for the time it takes for you to fit the belt, bolt the hydraulic tensioner in place and set its pulley correctly. Use the tools; it’s not clever to pretend that you don’t need them!

Simon

[jens_munk]

Well, there was some tension but they did get on without too much struggle. And I did check with the locking pin in place that all marks made prior to disassembly on all sprockets were in the right and same spots after the new belts and tensioner were in place. They are close but not exactly across, so my own marks were better. Engine was rotated by hand several times to ensure they were still all in the right spots. No matter how the belts got in place, I don't see how that can be any different with another tool.


The belts were original Rover tagged from Rimmer Bros.


The tool set is unbranded and bought in the USA. They did not have the Rover 75 over there, but they had the Land Rover with the same engine.


I am struggling with the coincidence myself, but it is a big operation and not totally unlikely that somethings else has been touched unintentionally.



I don't know. I am just so tired of it.

Originally Posted by SD1too

It’s not.

Hardly anyone has the Rover tools used by dealers. The Laser, AST and Sealey kits may not be as good but they work. It’s never a good idea to buy the cheapest tools, if that’s what you mean by “Chinese knock off”.

Sorry Jens, the rear belt does have to be tensioned (stretched) between precisely aligned rear sprockets prior and during fitting. Haynes says: “This will require some effort to overcome the tension of a new belt ..”. That’s an understatement. I’d say it’s impossible without either the belt or one or both sprockets moving. After you’d done this, did you reinsert the flywheel locking pin and check that the notches on the rear sprockets were misaligned by the same amount as they were before you started? They should not be exactly opposite each other as the manuals claim.

Good, you can discount that possibility then.

Jens, it’s obviously too much of a coincidence that, after renewing timing belts, you just happen to have a firing problem on one cylinder. Providing you didn’t forget to reconnect one of the injector loom plugs after the thermostat work, the indications are that you’ve upset the camshaft timing by thinking that you can do without the service tools which were designed to ensure that this cannot happen. If you don’t trust your Chinese kit, write it off to experience and buy a set from AST, Sealey or Laser to find out where you went wrong. You probably have an error on the front belt too as it is extremely physically taxing for one person to hold both sprockets precisely in position for the time it takes for you to fit the belt, bolt the hydraulic tensioner in place and set its pulley correctly. Use the tools; it’s not clever to pretend that you don’t need them!

Simon