Diesel clutch master cylinder question

[DMGRS]

Fantastic work - when I came into the thread I was worried the car was 'at risk' if the clutch was indeed worn out.
Glad to see I was wrong!

If we can help with any parts in future (late to the party I know...) feel free to drop us a PM

[biffa75]

DMGRS - You have ready helped out, it was I who ordered two driveshaft oil seals and guide tube to us it's just one of those things.. it started slipping not long after buying it and thought NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- it... Just get on with it. The slave didn't appear to be leaking and nor was the pressure plate worn to excess.

My brother has been back at it again (annoyingly I'm on nights again). He has removed the existing flywheel today and found that to be an Luk item so, I now suspect it has had a full Luk clutch kit fitted Including the master at some point, then the slave has possibly failed and it's had a cheap clutch fitted. When the slave has failed at some point in the past, it's caused the clutch to slip and causes damage to the flywheel surface. We are only guessing at this point that this may have been what has happened at some point in the cars past. Car only has 81k miles on it so to be already on its possible third clutch

Just out of interest and I know people's driving styles etc are all different Woth towing and such but,
how long should I expect the clutch to reasonably last? With a bit of careful driving and no towing
I know it's "how long is a piece of string type question but at a guess?"

We are hoping to get the car finished tomorrow all being well..

Thanks

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by biffa75

Just out of interest and I know people's driving styles etc are all different Woth towing and such but,
how long should I expect the clutch to reasonably last? With a bit of careful driving and no towing
I know it's "how long is a piece of string type question but at a guess?"

We are hoping to get the car finished tomorrow all being well..

Thanks

They can last the life of the car, or need replacing every 20K miles - it is all down to driving style and how much abuse a clutch suffers.

Mine is now on 123K miles, I have towed (maximum weight) lots of miles since I bought the car 12 years ago and I have never replaced the clutch in my ownership. It was suggested to me, looking at the slave pipe coming out of the housing, that it might have been replaced in the past.

In my life, I have several times had to replace clutches, but only when I have bought used cars abused by previous owners. I have never worn a clutch out myself, despite doing starship mileages for work. My driving style is one of being careful of clutch use - I dump the clutch at as low a speed as I possibly can, never hold the car on the clutch, always use the handbrake, never manoeuvrer the caravan with the car - I disconnect and use the mover. I avoid racing up to lights which about to change and drift gently up where I can.

The only clutch issue I have had was when the fancy billet alloy master cylinder was offered. I bought one, fitted it and a seal on that failed. I fitted it hoping it might make the clutch a bit lighter in operation and give an improved feel to my clutch....

I hate driving in traffic delays, simply because of that heavy/ hard to use clutch action.

I found my clutch very heavy and it has always only just cleared when pushed hard to the floor. It did help a little, but I broke down on holiday and had to get a default Rover master cylinder sourced and installed.

[HarryM1BYT]

Duplicate post..

[biffa75]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

They can last the life of the car, or need replacing every 20K miles - it is all down to driving style and how much abuse a clutch suffers.

Mine is now on 123K miles, I have towed (maximum weight) lots of miles since I bought the car 12 years ago and I have never replaced the clutch in my ownership. It was suggested to me, looking at the slave pipe coming out of the housing, that it might have been replaced in the past.

In my life, I have several times had to replace clutches, but only when I have bought used cars abused by previous owners. I have never worn a clutch out myself, despite doing starship mileages for work. My driving style is one of being careful of clutch use - I dump the clutch at as low a speed as I possibly can, never hold the car on the clutch, always use the handbrake, never manoeuvrer the caravan with the car - I disconnect and use the mover. I avoid racing up to lights which about to change and drift gently up where I can.

The only clutch issue I have had was when the fancy billet alloy master cylinder was offered. I bought one, fitted it and a seal on that failed. I fitted it hoping it might make the clutch a bit lighter in operation and give an improved feel to my clutch....

I hate driving in traffic delays, simply because of that heavy/ hard to use clutch action.

I found my clutch very heavy and it has always only just cleared when pushed hard to the floor. It did help a little, but I broke down on holiday and had to get a default Rover master cylinder sourced and installed.

That is encouraging. Being a large car and one that I like, I am going to be careful in regards to the clutch to just try and get as many miles from the hydraulics. We won't be towing anything so hopefully that will help.

I have some more parts arriving tomorrow as the box is back out at present due to leaving an oil seal out

If all goes to plan the rover will be back up and running tomorrow

Thanks
R

[biffa75]

I'm pleased to update this thread with the good news that our 75 tourer is now back together and running well.

After just 5 days of ownership, the gearbox was removed.

We found the friction plate to still have plenty of friction material left, the slave cinder wasn't leaking. Having then inspected the flywheel, the flywheel surface was badly heat spotted and had a lot of surface cracks.

To cut a long story short here is a list of parts we bought and myself, my brother and wife all did our bit to turn things around (largely by brother ).

1) new rear main seal for engine from BMW)
2) Luk DMF
3) luk clutch kit reset pro
4) ap Lockheed master cylinder
5) new guide tube
6) new gearbox oil retainer seal, found behind the guide tube on the gearbox.
7) new driveshaft oil seals
8) new passenger side lower arm and rear bush
9 new strut top bearings/mounts both sides
10) new track rod ends
11) new front drop links
12) new exhaust Flexi just before the cat as the old one was blowing
13) tyre protectors fitted

The car is now back up and running and driving well, still a few smaller jobs to do but they can wait for now.

We understand the clutch hydraulics on these cars can be fragile, so despite buying the car and the clutch slipping going unnoticed initially, it was there and quickly got worse after fitting the new master cylinder. Fresh fluid during bleeding may have had something to do with that? Either way, we went belt and braces and tried to buy the best and having seen other "clutch gurus" also speaking highly of Luk kits. we went with that and did everything.
One thing we did note was when the guide tube is removed, there is a small diameter black oil seal sat within a recess around the first motion shaft. If this seal is not seated correctly or as a slight nick or anything, after a short drive when the gearbox oil gets warm and the viscosity changes and oil pressure builds within the gearbox, oil can pass between the gearbox casting and the guide tube plate where it bolts up and runs into the bottom of the bell housing and out of the bottom where the holes are in the bottom of the bell housing near the sump.

Fingers crossed the clutch now lasts many thousands of miles.

Thanks for all the advice and info that people have posted.

R

[DMGRS]

Smashing, a job well done!
I'm glad we could help out.

With regards to clutch lifespan, the hydraulics on these cars are quite weak but it doesn't mean you can't have many years of use from the new item.
I go around with the mindset that the hydraulics have a finite number of engagements / disengagements, so attempt to change gear as little as possible combined with not sitting with my foot on the clutch pedal at traffic lights etc.

[biffa75]

Oh I forgot to say, the little one loved the sweets

That's good to hear, I understand the hydraulics are the weak part in the chain, unfortunately I do tend to drive from one town to the other so the clutch hydraulics do get some use but im tending to dip the clutch and roll up to junctions etc with my foot off the clutch and trying to not to sit with the clutch pedal pinned to the floor waiting for a gap in traffic (unless it's really busy or would be dangerous).

If it lasts two or three years or 20+k miles before needing the hydraulics doing again I don't think it would be too bad. It's a nice car so.. thanks again

Rob

[alanaslan]

Originally Posted by biffa75

Oh I forgot to say, the little one loved the sweets

That's good to hear, I understand the hydraulics are the weak part in the chain, unfortunately I do tend to drive from one town to the other so the clutch hydraulics do get some use but im tending to dip the clutch and roll up to junctions etc with my foot off the clutch and trying to not to sit with the clutch pedal pinned to the floor waiting for a gap in traffic (unless it's really busy or would be dangerous).

If it lasts two or three years or 20+k miles before needing the hydraulics doing again I don't think it would be too bad. It's a nice car so.. thanks again

Rob

The sweets are the best bit, I was devastated when I bought my new subframe in March the box had burst in a couple of places and the sweets had fallen out.

Even working the clutch hard in traffic all day the parts you have fitted should last between seven and ten years. Even heavy slipping of the clutch with high revs to make the car jump out into traffic you should expect 120k + out of the mechanical parts. The DMF at that time will probably have around 30mm of play in it.
I have witnessed the DMF being left with 43mm of play in it and the car just getting a friction plate, cover and bearing replaced said car went on for a further 160k with no problems in the clutch area.
The car in question was a M47R engine with a 157bhp map all this cars driving was down around town as it was a private hire taxi. Two of its three drivers had heavy right feet.

I work on the principle that even if I had to spend 2k a year on each of our cars I am still quids in as the payments on a new car of same size and power would exceed this.

The silver saloon ( wife’s Car ) has had just over £1700 spent on her over the past five years, during which time she has had new rear subframe and all suspension parts rear and front. The brakes have been replaced from the servo to the nipples. She has an oil and all filters changed twice a year, her air filter is just serviced as she has a K+N fitted. Being a diesel automatic she had her transmission fluid changed at 75k and will have it done again in two years when she turns 150k.

Well done you for keeping another one of these timeless machines looked after. You look after them and they will look after you.

Keep up the good work!

Alan



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[biffa75]

Well that is encouraging I hope it does last 10 years

When we bought the car it only had 81k miles.on the clock and already had a clutch change at some point in its life judging from the parts we removed. Even the dmf was marked up LUK at 81k. It's clearly been towing in its past (tow bar and electrics fitted). We won't be towing or do anything strenuous or even particularly any hard driving so fingers crossed it's all good for many years.

There's still some jobs to do but I'm glad this job is out of the way. These last few days I've been using the car for work and general running around. I must say, coming from a V6 auto saloon to the diesel tourer.. nearly 100 miles in to a full tank and the fuel needle has barely moved has a range showing of over 450 miles still. (I will be filling up at quarter of a tank though as both pumps appear to work and don't want to risk wearing them prematurely).

Rob