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Old 13th December 2021, 15:00   #211
wraymond
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Covid negs

You seem to think that all objectors are some kind of organised joint force looking to dangerously subvert the collective decision of the majority.

Instead of, of course, there being a variety of opinions on both sides, rather than it being a solid lumpen mass, either one side or both, of ignoramuses.

‘My decision’, as you put it, seems an attempt to cast doubt on those who take another view and has ‘repercussions on all the rest of us’. This decision therefore, by so many, has the effect of creating sides and virtually an opposition therefore leading to division – an unhealthy climate (to coin....).

It’s not a competition, it’s a conscientious decision we all take equally seriously. Millions of us do have our own reasons which you might not appreciate.
To demonise offers no solution, only division.
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Old 13th December 2021, 16:07   #212
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You seem to think that all objectors are some kind of organised joint force looking to dangerously subvert the collective decision of the majority.


No, it is just 10% of the population, putting the other 90% at greater risk than is necessary, of lockdown, illness, life changing ill health or death. Even if their is no direct risk, there are the indirect ones to consider...


Making the situation worse than it need be, by risking spreading it, involves more hospital beds being filled for longer which denies those waiting for other urgent treatment a bed.


‘My decision’, as you put it, seems an attempt to cast doubt on those who take another view and has ‘repercussions on all the rest of us’. This decision therefore, by so many, has the effect of creating sides and virtually an opposition therefore leading to division – an unhealthy climate (to coin....).

It is not a decision on which colour tie to wear for the day, it is much more serious than that. Besides, if your decision only affected you personally, then you would be welcome to it, but your decision and others with a similar view have major knock on effects for absolutely everyone around you.
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Old 13th December 2021, 17:08   #213
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Sorry Harry, you are making false assumptions.

Just by the way, the first sentence in your reply is trite and way off mark.

‘My decision’, a joint decision by and without any coercion of the whole family, does only affect my family – absolutely nobody else. You are putting your own parameters on me when you have no idea about it, or me. Nor have I or will I make any criticism of what you decide. I would imagine the other renegades follow a similar course.

My opinion is truly miniscule but there is a sizeable minority who agree with it! How about 8 million souls, by and large? And their children. That’s without the untraceable countless individuals who have entered the country under the radar and whose families have the prospect of surely following.

Further, I can guarantee nobody else will ever be affected/infected/suffer from my decision because I take my own precautions. I might even suggest, if I thought vaccination was totally successful in avoiding infection, that it just might be a suitable defence. But, we all know for certain it is not. No doubt about that, it is not.

Heaven alone knows what new features might suddenly be discovered we have to consider to continue to be uninfected when the next edict emerges from that den of ignorance in Downing Street. However, I wish you well and that you and yours stay free from this pest.
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Old 13th December 2021, 18:46   #214
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Further, I can guarantee nobody else will ever be affected/infected/suffer from my decision because I take my own precautions. I might even suggest, if I thought vaccination was totally successful in avoiding infection, that it just might be a suitable defence. But, we all know for certain it is not. No doubt about that, it is not.

No vaccine is 100% certain to work, none of them, but given that they reduce one's chances of not getting to 70%, drastically reduce the severity, reduce the chances of dying, also reduces the chances of passing it on - then any sensible person whether a gambler or not, will understand which is the correct choice to make.


I too take my own precautions, but I supplement them with vaccinations. Unless you live in a cave, on a private island and which you never leave, then you simply cannot guarantee getting it, nor can you suggest you cannot pass it on. Like most of us, you will be going shopping, mixing with others and taking the risks.
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Old 13th December 2021, 20:30   #215
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No vaccine is 100% certain to work, none of them, but given that they reduce one's chances of not getting to 70%, drastically reduce the severity, reduce the chances of dying, also reduces the chances of passing it on - then any sensible person whether a gambler or not, will understand which is the correct choice to make.


I too take my own precautions, but I supplement them with vaccinations. Unless you live in a cave, on a private island and which you never leave, then you simply cannot guarantee getting it, nor can you suggest you cannot pass it on. Like most of us, you will be going shopping, mixing with others and taking the risks.
The chances of anything with these vaccines seems to be quite random, how long since you had the second, how effective was it then. I listened to the radio 2 medical slot today, Dr Sara Jarvis said the Oxford second dose in many could be as low as 10% effective now, that's very poor odds and quite frightening for many. I think you've been assuming that the unvaccinated people are the highest risk of catching and spreading the virus, it's made you irrational like many out there, the facts are that the jabs are poor quality vaccines that are making vast profits for the makers of them, anyone can spread it and the depth of illness depends on when you had your last jab, being in a room with someone unvaccinated does not increase the risk of catching it, anyone that thinks otherwise is bordering on hysteria. It's the first time in history that the failure of a vaccine is being blamed on the ones that haven't taken it. It's not the job of the unvaccinated to protect the ones that are, that's the job of the vaccines and if they don't work, who do you blame? I'm unvaccinated and happy to be left to my own devices, I pose no risk to anyone unless I get the virus and pass it on, it's simplistic but a fact.

As for no vaccination being 100%, Smallpox has been eradicated by vaccines for one.
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Old 13th December 2021, 22:17   #216
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One of the most wonderful things about TV is just how prescient it can sometimes be.

I was watching GB News an hour or so ago, 7pm to 8 is the Farage hour and unmissable, and Farage had as a guest the MP David Davies. After the usual banter he, from experience and as a three-vacced figure known for his blunt approach, gave us the inside grif on, gasp, The Vaccine. From what it actually is, does, and its efficacy, he was blunt and factual.

According to him, and he should know given all the briefings he has had, it does not prevent you from getting infected as earlier vaccinations for Measles/chicken pox/TB etc. did.

It works in a different way. It fights the effects of the virus when you get infected in attempts to minimise those effects. What it does do though is to make it easier for you to infect others.

So, the moral is to avoid (like the plague?) those vaccinated carriers because they are the reservoirs for renewed and subsequent infection. Apparently. Just saying
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Old 14th December 2021, 08:37   #217
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The chances of anything with these vaccines seems to be quite random, how long since you had the second, how effective was it then. I listened to the radio 2 medical slot today, Dr Sara Jarvis said the Oxford second dose in many could be as low as 10% effective now, that's very poor odds and quite frightening for many. I think you've been assuming that the unvaccinated people are the highest risk of catching and spreading the virus, it's made you irrational like many out there, the facts are that the jabs are poor quality vaccines that are making vast profits for the makers of them, anyone can spread it and the depth of illness depends on when you had your last jab, being in a room with someone unvaccinated does not increase the risk of catching it, anyone that thinks otherwise is bordering on hysteria. It's the first time in history that the failure of a vaccine is being blamed on the ones that haven't taken it. It's not the job of the unvaccinated to protect the ones that are, that's the job of the vaccines and if they don't work, who do you blame? I'm unvaccinated and happy to be left to my own devices, I pose no risk to anyone unless I get the virus and pass it on, it's simplistic but a fact.


If those erroneous and twisted facts make you feel safe, then carry on.


As for no vaccination being 100%, Smallpox has been eradicated by vaccines for one.

The smallpox vaccination was never 100%, it only needed to be good enough to wipe out the smallpox, that is how vaccines work - they rely on being good enough. The covid vaccine is good enough to wipe out the covid, but only if enough of us cooperate. You do not want to be a part of the cure, you would rather be a part of the problem spreading misinformation, lies and suspicion..
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Old 14th December 2021, 08:51   #218
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One of the most wonderful things about TV is just how prescient it can sometimes be.

I was watching GB News an hour or so ago, 7pm to 8 is the Farage hour and unmissable, and Farage had as a guest the MP David Davies. After the usual banter he, from experience and as a three-vacced figure known for his blunt approach, gave us the inside grif on, gasp, The Vaccine. From what it actually is, does, and its efficacy, he was blunt and factual.

According to him, and he should know given all the briefings he has had, it does not prevent you from getting infected as earlier vaccinations for Measles/chicken pox/TB etc. did.

It works in a different way. It fights the effects of the virus when you get infected in attempts to minimise those effects. What it does do though is to make it easier for you to infect others.

So, the moral is to avoid (like the plague?) those vaccinated carriers because they are the reservoirs for renewed and subsequent infection. Apparently. Just saying

Well, as we all know Farage is a major authority and knows everything there is to know about vaccines, so you must believe every word he says?



Likewise that Scot, TV history presenter who likewise claims to know everything about vaccines and covid, who presented his anti-vaccine rant on Youtube. I had a great deal of respect for him and the history programs he presented. I would even make a point of watching them when they were on TV, but not now - he has done himself no favours by making that rambling anti-vaccine rant.



You don't go to a Tesco checkout operator, to ask them about a problem with your car, you go to a knowledgeable mechanic, so why believe failed politicians and TV presenters?




I try to take my advice from experts in their fields, not politicians and certainly not history presenters. The experts present details and figures which stand up to proper scrutiny, from other experts in their field.
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Old 14th December 2021, 10:20   #219
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Sorry Harry, you seem to be conflating one chap with another. Perhaps I wasn’t clear?

It was Farage’s questions and Davies’ answers. Farage did not give his views at this point so the replies were all DD’s. He is nobody’s fool or stooge and indeed has a deserved reputation for not tolerating fools gladly –whatever side we support.

I was offering his words – not Farage’s. DD is the expert here – both in politics and reputation. Or does his party precede him in terms of approval?
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Old 14th December 2021, 10:27   #220
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Sorry Harry, you seem to be conflating one chap with another. Perhaps I wasn’t clear?

It was Farage’s questions and Davies’ answers. Farage did not give his views at this point so the replies were all DD’s. He is nobody’s fool or stooge and indeed has a deserved reputation for not tolerating fools gladly –whatever side we support.

I was offering his words – not Farage’s. DD is the expert here – both in politics and reputation. Or does his party precede him in terms of approval?

DD, like Farage, is a politician hardly an expert or qualified to comment on vaccines, health, medical matters or statistics. He came out with answers which suited you so you accepted what he said. I listen to the experts who actually know their subjects in depth.
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