KV6 to 1.8T Swap - How hard?

TomRS · 8th November 2016, 17:04

I am toying with the idea of dropping the KV6 and putting in a 1.8T, as with a remap these can do about 210bhp (Exhaust changes etc too)

Which for me is plenty (mid-range i want more than anything.)

Now i dont want to start a debate about the pitfalls and gains to each engine, i just want to know if its possible.. or more importantly how much work is involved in dropping in a 1.8T in place of the KV6 as with time and money anything is possible.

Assuming i have a donor car to pull all the bits from and not just an engine, what would need swapping over?
Gearbox, engine, ECU, Loom... (MarinaBrian could code my keys to the new ECU so thats not an issue) and the rest im unsure?

Another thing that would be important is my LPG setup, could that be carried across and could that be made to work with the 200+ remap? i have a vaporizer capable of 250bhp on a 6cyl so im sure it would cope fine in that area, just not sure how i'd go about changing the ecu to see only 4 injectors compared to 6 and how it would work with the remap etc etc.

Anyway, its just an idea that im toying with, working out whats best.. i do love the V6 the sound is sublime, but for my run to and from barrow its just too much effort up and down the gears due to the lack of mid range, a 1.8t (after driving one only recently) has really opened up my opinion of the engine.

Thanks!

Phil-T4 · 8th November 2016, 17:15

Its possible (everything is!) but lots of work, the main body harness loom would need changing too.

The suspension springs are different so ride height may be higher unless you put 1.8 springs on it.

For LPG system i would contact the manufacturer or specialist.

kc13661 · 8th November 2016, 17:16

Well I am in the middle of going from a 1.8 manual to a 1.8T Automatic and it required, obviously the Engine, complete cooling system, full exhaust, fuel pump from tank and Fuel lines (to do with connectors)

ECU and EWS, on top of this because I was putting the 1.8T into an automatic, it required the gearbox oil cooler with shroud and fan, the oil cooler pipework, a 1.8T automatic windscreen washer bottle (same as V8)

Dave Johnson from Woodstone Village (DJ Auto's) is doing the work on the mechanical side, and thankfully Brian (Marinabrian) is doing his magic with the re-coding and making the car understand what a 1.8T is.... after all when the car rolled off the line in 1999 at Cowley, the 1.8T was not even an option on the range, let alone a 1.8T Automatic

marinabrian · 8th November 2016, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomRS

I am toying with the idea of dropping the KV6 and putting in a 1.8T, as with a remap these can do about 210bhp (Exhaust changes etc too)

Which for me is plenty (mid-range i want more than anything.)

Now i dont want to start a debate about the pitfalls and gains to each engine, i just want to know if its possible.. or more importantly how much work is involved in dropping in a 1.8T in place of the KV6 as with time and money anything is possible.

Assuming i have a donor car to pull all the bits from and not just an engine, what would need swapping over?
Gearbox, engine, ECU, Loom... (MarinaBrian could code my keys to the new ECU so thats not an issue) and the rest im unsure?

Another thing that would be important is my LPG setup, could that be carried across and could that be made to work with the 200+ remap? i have a vaporizer capable of 250bhp on a 6cyl so im sure it would cope fine in that area, just not sure how i'd go about changing the ecu to see only 4 injectors compared to 6 and how it would work with the remap etc etc.

Anyway, its just an idea that im toying with, working out whats best.. i do love the V6 the sound is sublime, but for my run to and from barrow its just too much effort up and down the gears due to the lack of mid range, a 1.8t (after driving one only recently) has really opened up my opinion of the engine.

Thanks!

It is just about everything, fuel pump and pipework, exhaust, complete wiring loom, ECM, radiator pack, fan, and the LPG would require a new front end, as I've never come across a sequential injection LPG setup that can be reconfigured from six cylinder to four.

If you get a complete donor car it is possible, but you would be better advised to buy a ZT-T 1800 turbo, and convert it to LPG.

a standard setup with a KMaps "tweak" will give you around 205BHP, the engine I had earmarked for Frosty however should be a little bit more than that, as it's fitted with a VVC head with a solid cam conversion.

I was going to employ the VVC mechs too, however that may be a bridge too far considering I'm fitting this powerplant into a 1996 416 tourer......talk about a street sleeper

Brian

minimutly · 8th November 2016, 21:32

Well i'm looking into a t series implant into a zt turbo. The lpg is allready there, the v6 box will bolt on (with some bits welded on), i just need to sort out the flywheel tooth pattern for the crank sensor.
(I need an old ztt flywheel if anyone has one)

marinabrian · 8th November 2016, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimutly

Well i'm looking into a t series implant into a zt turbo. The lpg is allready there, the v6 box will bolt on (with some bits welded on), i just need to sort out the flywheel tooth pattern for the crank sensor.
(I need an old ztt flywheel if anyone has one)

If you're planning on running it on MEMS 3, you'd be better fitting the DMF to the T Series rather than trying to mate the solid flywheel up.

I have to ask the question.......why???? yes the T series is a capable engine, but the 1800T is a much nicer proposition altogether, smoother, lighter and quite frankly light years ahead in terms of development......

It's certainly a lot harder to convert a ZT as opposed to a ZR or ZS where you can use the PG1 box, not to mention the MEMS 1.6 or 1.9 to run it all

Brian

minimutly · 9th November 2016, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinabrian

If you're planning on running it on MEMS 3, you'd be better fitting the DMF to the T Series rather than trying to mate the solid flywheel up.

I have to ask the question.......why???? yes the T series is a capable engine, but the 1800T is a much nicer proposition altogether, smoother, lighter and quite frankly light years ahead in terms of development......

It's certainly a lot harder to convert a ZT as opposed to a ZR or ZS where you can use the PG1 box, not to mention the MEMS 1.6 or 1.9 to run it all

Brian

I dont know yet if it would be easier to fit the dmf or machine the tooth pattern into the flywheel - machining teeth is simple, if the bolt pattern of the crank/flywheel is different it becomes impossible without some sort of adaption, not something I would entertain. I need both on the bench in front of me.

Why? - simple - ccs, reliability, strength. I wont have to stop at 200 bhp. I don't buy that its a whole lot smoother, yes the k flywheel is a much better made item ( much lighter with no excess metal anywhere, in fact quite impressively designed)' otherwise i see few other positives. I have actually tried to copy a k series crank design into a t, it took me hours and hours, the amount of shavings was staggering, and all achieved without reduced strength.

As for the 'box, if i use a v6 box it has two mounting that line up, and I have a tig welder. This means the shafts mate up nicely. the mems won't know the difference, sure i may have to fit bigger injectors, adjust the map sensor reading or even do some remapping - can you help there?

GordyB · 9th November 2016, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomRS

Another thing that would be important is my LPG setup, could that be carried across and could that be made to work with the 200+ remap? i have a vaporizer capable of 250bhp on a 6cyl so im sure it would cope fine in that area, just not sure how i'd go about changing the ecu to see only 4 injectors compared to 6 and how it would work with the remap etc etc.

Thanks!

I'd be interested in some more info on how LPG copes with the higher power map upgrade too as I have a 1.8T running a ROMANO lpg kit

Ta

minimutly · 9th November 2016, 20:08

Just upgrading the map should pose no problems assuming the liquid feed line, the vaporiser, and the injectors are sized suitably - no guarantees that they would be without trying.

TomRS · 10th November 2016, 11:38

Thanks everyone, that answers my question, basically be easier to just keep the KV6.
Or swap all my interior over into the 1.8t

Shame as this shell is solid and with all the work gone into it i honestly thought it would be easier doing an engine swap.

Not to worry back to the drawing board as far as the KV6 goes

Thanks everyone for the responses and cheers Brian i dont have much understanding of LPG systems yet (still learning) so wasnt sure!
Bottom line, too much hassle and money to do such a swap!

Btw minimutly, interested to see how your T series swap goes, that'll certainly be an interesting one!

8th November 2016, 17:04	#1
TomRS Posted a thing or two Mk1 ZT 190 - Mk2 ZS 180 - Mercedes E63 AMG S - Ford Ranger Hawk Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Middlesbrough Posts: 1,456 Thanks: 123 Thanked 409 Times in 281 Posts	KV6 to 1.8T Swap - How hard? I am toying with the idea of dropping the KV6 and putting in a 1.8T, as with a remap these can do about 210bhp (Exhaust changes etc too) Which for me is plenty (mid-range i want more than anything.) Now i dont want to start a debate about the pitfalls and gains to each engine, i just want to know if its possible.. or more importantly how much work is involved in dropping in a 1.8T in place of the KV6 as with time and money anything is possible. Assuming i have a donor car to pull all the bits from and not just an engine, what would need swapping over? Gearbox, engine, ECU, Loom... (MarinaBrian could code my keys to the new ECU so thats not an issue) and the rest im unsure? Another thing that would be important is my LPG setup, could that be carried across and could that be made to work with the 200+ remap? i have a vaporizer capable of 250bhp on a 6cyl so im sure it would cope fine in that area, just not sure how i'd go about changing the ecu to see only 4 injectors compared to 6 and how it would work with the remap etc etc. Anyway, its just an idea that im toying with, working out whats best.. i do love the V6 the sound is sublime, but for my run to and from barrow its just too much effort up and down the gears due to the lack of mid range, a 1.8t (after driving one only recently) has really opened up my opinion of the engine. Thanks! __________________ http://i66.tinypic.com/5cd6xj.jpg

8th November 2016, 17:16	#3
kc13661 I really should get out more....... Freelander Td4 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Gateshead Posts: 2,332 Thanks: 704 Thanked 909 Times in 419 Posts	Well I am in the middle of going from a 1.8 manual to a 1.8T Automatic and it required, obviously the Engine, complete cooling system, full exhaust, fuel pump from tank and Fuel lines (to do with connectors) ECU and EWS, on top of this because I was putting the 1.8T into an automatic, it required the gearbox oil cooler with shroud and fan, the oil cooler pipework, a 1.8T automatic windscreen washer bottle (same as V8) Dave Johnson from Woodstone Village (DJ Auto's) is doing the work on the mechanical side, and thankfully Brian (Marinabrian) is doing his magic with the re-coding and making the car understand what a 1.8T is.... after all when the car rolled off the line in 1999 at Cowley, the 1.8T was not even an option on the range, let alone a 1.8T Automatic __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------- Growing old is compulsory.... Growing up is Optional

10th November 2016, 11:38	#10
TomRS Posted a thing or two Mk1 ZT 190 - Mk2 ZS 180 - Mercedes E63 AMG S - Ford Ranger Hawk Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Middlesbrough Posts: 1,456 Thanks: 123 Thanked 409 Times in 281 Posts	Thanks everyone, that answers my question, basically be easier to just keep the KV6. Or swap all my interior over into the 1.8t Shame as this shell is solid and with all the work gone into it i honestly thought it would be easier doing an engine swap. Not to worry back to the drawing board as far as the KV6 goes Thanks everyone for the responses and cheers Brian i dont have much understanding of LPG systems yet (still learning) so wasnt sure! Bottom line, too much hassle and money to do such a swap! Btw minimutly, interested to see how your T series swap goes, that'll certainly be an interesting one! __________________ http://i66.tinypic.com/5cd6xj.jpg Last edited by TomRS; 10th November 2016 at 11:41..

8th November 2016, 17:15	#2
Phil-T4 I really should get out more....... MG ZT-T, Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Olney Posts: 2,969 Thanks: 245 Thanked 1,088 Times in 657 Posts	Its possible (everything is!) but lots of work, the main body harness loom would need changing too. The suspension springs are different so ride height may be higher unless you put 1.8 springs on it. For LPG system i would contact the manufacturer or specialist.

8th November 2016, 21:32	#5
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	Well i'm looking into a t series implant into a zt turbo. The lpg is allready there, the v6 box will bolt on (with some bits welded on), i just need to sort out the flywheel tooth pattern for the crank sensor. (I need an old ztt flywheel if anyone has one)

9th November 2016, 20:08	#9
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	Just upgrading the map should pose no problems assuming the liquid feed line, the vaporiser, and the injectors are sized suitably - no guarantees that they would be without trying.