Go Back   The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > Technical Help Forum
Register FAQ Image Gallery Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 7th September 2020, 13:23   #11
Blink
Posted a thing or two
 
Blink's Avatar
 
Rover 75 Saloon

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Under the car
Posts: 1,840
Thanks: 210
Thanked 244 Times in 221 Posts
Default

Great post TC. I agree with Jon - it should be added to the HowTo section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
Did this very job on my 1.8T last week. It will no doubt be a more fiddly job removing/refitting the pipe in a V6, but you'll need to make as much clear space around the firewall as you can get. The pipes are all clipped to the firewall in two places. There's a set of clips just inboard of the ABS unit where five pipes run vertically. The other set is nearer the centre of the firewall where the five pipes run across horizontally.
I've already got the old pipes out (not factory originals) - I mangled them in the process so they're of little use now for templates.





I've got good (ish) access to the firewall run from the modulator because there's no gearbox, drive shafts or anything else on the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
The pipe going to the RH front brake is the centre one. There's a third clip mounted on the 'chassis' near the wheel arch grommet. Winkling the pipe out and the new one in will be a frustrating task that gets easier as you find all the wrong ways to do it.
Frustrating is putting it mildly - see above pic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
The pipe at the wheel arch bracket flexi-connection may be best simply cut through against the union. You need to retain as much length as possible for matching up the new piping. The old connector nut will then respond easily to a standard socket. The vertical pipe section here has to be bent back upwards so it is horizontal and will pass into the engine bay through the two wing panels/grommet.
I cut them here - not close enough to the union - not that it matters now after my aforementioned mangling.



Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
This end is the easiest part of the job. You need a proper brake pipe spanner (11mm AF) like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-Br...72.m2749.l2649= to undo the pipe union.
I've got that Draper 10/11mm already - I bought it for the rear end unions last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
To make a new union you'll need a 10 x 1mm male pipe connector (short version) like these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAKE-PIP...72.m2749.l2649
You'll use two of these of course.
Is the 10x1mm fitting on the modulator end the same as the fitting on the hose union end - or are they different lengths?

I can't tell because I can't get the union end apart (pic above).

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
This will depend on the state of things under the wheel arch. I renewed everything including the flexible hose. So apart from the male connector nut, I bought the box-shaped spring retainer that holds the pipe connector to the wheel arch bracket. You can get these for £1.98 a pair from your local Andrew Page shop (now Euro Car Parts) or online: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-MINI-...wAAOSwuh1eyWzF
The centre of the flexi-hose is clipped to the hub with a U-clip which I got from eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4X-Brake-...72.m2749.l2649
I've already got the box-shaped spring retainer and the U-clip (two of each).

I'm renewing everything - discs, calipers, flexible hoses - and the L-brackets in the wheel arches have already been de-rusted and painted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
When you eventually get the old pipe in your hands, use it as a template for the new pipe. I found the best metod is to start with a 140cm length of straight pipe. One end should be prepard for flaring according to the supplied instructions. Flare the ABS end now. If you're happy with the flare, slot a connector nut onto the pipe and butt it to the flare and hold in place with a bit of insulating tape. You must do this before shaping the pipe. I have two scapped attempts to prove it!
Ok, understood.

- Cut 140cm of straight pipe
- Flare ABS end
- Put a fitting on pipe and tape it to ABS end

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
Starting at the ABS connector, shape the first bend. It's very close to the nut. Once you're happy with this first bend, begin using the old pipe as a template by taping it to the new pipe. This way you don't have to handle separate pipes that seem to have a life of their own. Each time you make a new bend, tape the straight section to the old ppe section. I found it easiet to work two bends ahead of the taped section. Eventually, you'll have the old and new pipes taped together as exact copies. The free end section will be longer than the old one, but that's OK and can be trimmed to the correct length under the wheel arch.

Reverse the pipe winkling excercise to get the thing in position with the ABS connector sitting nicely in place. Clip the new pipe into the firewall clips and remember the one just near the grommet into the wheel arch.
The straight end sticking through to the wheel arch wll require bending carefully down towards the connector bracket. You only get one chance to cut it so ensure the swaged end will sit down into the flexi-pipe receiver. There's about half and inch of tolerance through the grommet, but try to ensure the pipe will sit reasonably well in the middle so it won't rub on the body panel.

Put the connector nut onto the pipe now and tape it out of the way while you prepare to cut and flare the pipe. the rest is pretty obvious and staright forward. Good luck.
I'll come back to this section and follow it piece by piece. The old pipe is NG for a template though so I'll try and make one with a core of 2.5mm mains cable instead. It might just work - at least I can practise winkling it in & out without wasting several feet of real pipe at every attempt.
Blink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2020, 13:30   #12
Blink
Posted a thing or two
 
Blink's Avatar
 
Rover 75 Saloon

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Under the car
Posts: 1,840
Thanks: 210
Thanked 244 Times in 221 Posts
Question Straightening the coiled pipe

PS.

TC - I forgot to ask: how did you straighten out the Kunifer coil to start with - any special trick to it or just play it by ear?
Blink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2020, 14:54   #13
T-Cut
This is my second home
 
Rover75 and Mreg Corsa.

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin)
Posts: 21,751
Thanks: 341
Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink View Post
Great post TC. I agree with Jon - it should be added to the HowTo section.
I believe the only way to get anything into the HowTo section is for a mod to do it. Maybe they will - ?

Quote:
I've already got the old pipes out (not factory originals) - I mangled them in the process so they're of little use now for templates. - - - - I've got good (ish) access to the firewall run from the modulator because there's no gearbox, drive shafts or anything else on the car.
Yes I see that now. Pity really because making a spot-on duplicate is quite satisfying. You'll just have to work in the space you have, bend a bit test a bit - it doesn't have to look very pretty to pass the MOT. As long as there's no chance of it fouling anything that moves.


Making a template from stout wire sounds like a good plan.


Quote:
Is the 10x1mm fitting on the modulator end the same as the fitting on the hose union end - or are they different lengths?
They're the same - 10x1mm, DIN, short length. The connectors sold on eBay, etc. are generally the 'short' type unless specifically described as 'long'.



TC
T-Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2020, 15:47   #14
T-Cut
This is my second home
 
Rover75 and Mreg Corsa.

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin)
Posts: 21,751
Thanks: 341
Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink View Post
TC - I forgot to ask: how did you straighten out the Kunifer coil to start with - any special trick to it or just play it by ear?
Just unwind the coil by turning it laid on the table/floor while holding the loose end. Remove the curves by 'stretching out' and shaping by hand. It'll never become perfectly straight no matter how long you work at it. Look down the length from one end to see where the kinks are. Nearly straight is good enough.

Cut off a 6in piece and use it to practice your flaring skill. Don't let the ABS connection on your beautifully straightened pipe beyour first go. Prepare the cut ends as described in the instructions. Very gently fettle the inner edge using a countersink bit at low speed but don't make the bore bigger. Just clear it. Put a tiny chamfer on the outer edge of the end to provide a lead-in for the flaring die. Put a tiny bit of the lubricant (in the kit) onto the die before insertion.

TC
T-Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th September 2020, 21:48   #15
ADO282
Banned
 
ADO282's Avatar
 
ROVER 75 Connoisseur

Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: BRACKNELL
Posts: 270
Thanks: 125
Thanked 130 Times in 92 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink View Post
PS.

TC - I forgot to ask: how did you straighten out the Kunifer coil to start with - any special trick to it or just play it by ear?

How about this?


https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/brake-...aightener-tool
ADO282 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2020, 09:45   #16
T-Cut
This is my second home
 
Rover75 and Mreg Corsa.

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin)
Posts: 21,751
Thanks: 341
Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADO282 View Post
How about this?
Ha! very good.


TC
T-Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2020, 12:40   #17
Blink
Posted a thing or two
 
Blink's Avatar
 
Rover 75 Saloon

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Under the car
Posts: 1,840
Thanks: 210
Thanked 244 Times in 221 Posts
Lightbulb Kwix pipe straightener

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADO282 View Post

I do like the look of that Kwix straightener - shame about the price though. £30 and I'd have bought one.

I like the marking idea too - so you can keep track of one 'side'/'edge' of the pipe. See 2m 40s here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MY_AQzX03o

Last edited by Blink; 11th September 2020 at 12:41.. Reason: link
Blink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2020, 15:26   #18
T-Cut
This is my second home
 
Rover75 and Mreg Corsa.

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin)
Posts: 21,751
Thanks: 341
Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink View Post
I like the marking idea too - so you can keep track of one 'side'/'edge' of the pipe. See 2m 40s here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MY_AQzX03o
The line is only useful where all the intended bends are in the same plane. This is what's demonstrated in the video. The 'bad' result has two bends in two different planes, so it looks 'wrong'. But what if the pipe needs to be that shape? The front brake pipes have several adjacent non-planar bends, so the line really isn't going to help you position a bending tool on the pipe. I reckon my tape-it-to-the-original method is far more useful in getting all the bend planes and angles to match the original. Just my opinion of course and I might be misunderstanding what the line offers. So it'll be useful to get another perspective on it.


TC
T-Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2020, 08:52   #19
ADO282
Banned
 
ADO282's Avatar
 
ROVER 75 Connoisseur

Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: BRACKNELL
Posts: 270
Thanks: 125
Thanked 130 Times in 92 Posts
Default

I've bought myself one of these........


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-VS...72.m2749.l2649


I've yet to use it in anger, as I only got it on Friday !!


I'll let you know how it fares for duplicating original pipework in due course.
ADO282 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2020, 12:03   #20
Blink
Posted a thing or two
 
Blink's Avatar
 
Rover 75 Saloon

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Under the car
Posts: 1,840
Thanks: 210
Thanked 244 Times in 221 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Cut View Post
The line is only useful where all the intended bends are in the same plane. This is what's demonstrated in the video. The 'bad' result has two bends in two different planes, so it looks 'wrong'. But what if the pipe needs to be that shape? The front brake pipes have several adjacent non-planar bends, so the line really isn't going to help you position a bending tool on the pipe. I reckon my tape-it-to-the-original method is far more useful in getting all the bend planes and angles to match the original. Just my opinion of course and I might be misunderstanding what the line offers. So it'll be useful to get another perspective on it.


TC
I see your point TC.

I've decided the chances of the line being right are slim anyway. It'll only be straight if the pipe doesn't twist (at all) as it goes through the Kwix. Even the slightest rotation means you've got a wonky line.
Blink is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © 2006-2023, The Rover 75 & MG ZT Owners Club Ltd