Perplexing 1.8 idle and smoke issues - Page 2

KenR · 28th January 2018, 11:45

Leaking rocker cover gasket???

KenR · 28th January 2018, 11:45

Straws.... Clutching..... Wildy.

roverbarmy · 28th January 2018, 11:47

Fresh oil in the plug cavity sounds like a spillage when filling or topping up the oil. A spark will track via the oil, to the head, causing the misfire. Also check the cam cover seal for leakage. Clean the oil out before removing the plug or the oil will drop straight into the combustion chamber. Don't have HGF paranoia, there's lots to check first, especially as it was running fine before.

KenR · 28th January 2018, 11:50

The symptoms kind of fit........

slovcan · 28th January 2018, 14:53

Hi Ken,

There are a lot of logical ideas here. I don't see any symptoms that point to head gasket failure. If it was it is certain you would have oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil or a consistently dead cylinder - or some combination of those 3. I think you may have a couple of smaller issues happening. The oil in the spark plug wells is the main symptom of cam cover gasket/seal leakage. Some cam cover gasket systems use separate o-ring seals at the bottom of the spark plug wells. I haven't seen one of these engines, but this problem (oil in plug wells) is common with many engine manufacturers. It will cause rough running of the engine as Roverbarmy said. The exhaust smoke is not conclusive. Is it definitely blue? Could it be grey or black? Rich running would likely result in grey smoke which when combined with the normal exhaust condensate vapours in cooler weather could look blueish, I guess. Incomplete combustion due to misfire caused by the oil in the plug wells may imitate rich mixture for that (those) cylinder(s). If it was smoke from a head gasket failure, it would almost certainly be white and smell distinctly sweet like antifreeze.

Was there anything noteworthy about your last drive in the car before the week long layup?

Cheers,
Glenn

KenR · 28th January 2018, 15:58

Hi Glenn, the car has been absolutely faultless running-wise until I had to leave it alone for my stomach op on the 18th and am not allowed to drive for another few days. However, I went to start her up as I have done previously and that is when it all went wrong, I didn't get the opportunity initially to really have a good look at the smoke coming out of the exhaust but have since realised it is not white, nor does it smell of coolant at all. It is nearer a very light blue/grey colour which would tie in with the other symptoms of cam cover gasket death.

Feel more reassured now and will tackle this as soon as the gasket arrives. In the interim, I am in the process of cleaning out the oil from the plug tubes and I will clean up the leakage on the exhaust.

Worth a try for the cost of a gasket and a bit of time. I'll hang fire on changing the inlet manifold gasket just yet.

Thanks again.

murphyv310 · 30th January 2018, 09:08

Hi.
An external oil leak will not cause the engine to sound rough or emit smoke from the exhaust tail pipe. Yes it can drip into the plug hole recesses and onto the exhaust and burn off but if you didn't have these issues before it wasn't run for a week or two well there is something amiss.
A totally daft suggestion could be that you had a severe frost and if the cooling system had no antifreeze then you may have a cracked head or something else causing a big oil leak due to a fracture.
One thing I'd say is although the coolant had K seal in it, not every time does it cause an issue, again a perfectly good running car wont suddenly go wrong when left for a week or so with K seal in it. Look elsewhere for the problem.

Head Gaskets don't fail when a car is not running, its overheating, low coolant etc that gives HGF.

KenR · 30th January 2018, 15:52

Okay, I replaced the cam cover gasket this afternoon. Nice and simple. Job done.

Plugs were sooty, plus oily on plug number 3, the one the N/S coil pack sits on.

Good sparks happening.

Started the car, exactly the same. Missing and blue/grey smoke issuing forth from the exhaust although no major oily mess in the tail pipe itself.

Friend thinks poss injector issue or HGF...

I have no clue. He isn't a fuel injection fiddler.

He focuses on older stuff tbh. Like early 1900's Levassor taxis and so on and other things a bit newer but not by much.

roverbarmy · 30th January 2018, 17:40

Did you put new plugs in?

kelvo · 30th January 2018, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenR

Okay, I replaced the cam cover gasket this afternoon. Nice and simple. Job done.

Plugs were sooty, plus oily on plug number 3, the one the N/S coil pack sits on.

Good sparks happening.

Started the car, exactly the same. Missing and blue/grey smoke issuing forth from the exhaust although no major oily mess in the tail pipe itself.

Friend thinks poss injector issue or HGF...

I have no clue. He isn't a fuel injection fiddler.

He focuses on older stuff tbh. Like early 1900's Levassor taxis and so on and other things a bit newer but not by much.

sooty plugs would indicate a mixture fault to me, in much the same way as a carb running rich. The oily plug would indicate the one that is probably not firing properly and fouling up. The rich running and oil would certainly cause the smoke.

Not sure if it's possible with modern electronics but with engine running you could remove a plug lead at a time and see what difference that makes, if there is no difference when you take the plug lead off, that is the faulty cylinder.

Compression test would indicate possible HGF, although as others have said it is unlikely to happen whilst standing.

Possible injector I suppose, that would be feasible and possibly it may be over-compensating and over fuelling the other cylinders? My dad did have a Renault 25 that had starting problems and that turned out to be coolant temp defective - obviously didn't know what mixture strength to set.

28th January 2018, 11:45	#11
KenR Loves to post 2.5 V6 Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: North London Posts: 286 Thanks: 57 Thanked 45 Times in 38 Posts	Leaking rocker cover gasket??? __________________ 2002 MG ZT 160 - Le Mans Green 1996 MGF VVC BRG 1975 Triumph Toledo 2 litre 1996 Ford Galaxy 2.0 petrol

28th January 2018, 11:45	#12
KenR Loves to post 2.5 V6 Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: North London Posts: 286 Thanks: 57 Thanked 45 Times in 38 Posts	Straws.... Clutching..... Wildy. __________________ 2002 MG ZT 160 - Le Mans Green 1996 MGF VVC BRG 1975 Triumph Toledo 2 litre 1996 Ford Galaxy 2.0 petrol

28th January 2018, 11:47	#13
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,050 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	Fresh oil in the plug cavity sounds like a spillage when filling or topping up the oil. A spark will track via the oil, to the head, causing the misfire. Also check the cam cover seal for leakage. Clean the oil out before removing the plug or the oil will drop straight into the combustion chamber. Don't have HGF paranoia, there's lots to check first, especially as it was running fine before. __________________ Oil in my veins!

28th January 2018, 11:50	#14
KenR Loves to post 2.5 V6 Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: North London Posts: 286 Thanks: 57 Thanked 45 Times in 38 Posts	The symptoms kind of fit........ __________________ 2002 MG ZT 160 - Le Mans Green 1996 MGF VVC BRG 1975 Triumph Toledo 2 litre 1996 Ford Galaxy 2.0 petrol

28th January 2018, 14:53	#15
slovcan Gets stuck in 75 Tourer CDT MK2 manual in Glorious Grey Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Slovakia Posts: 987 Thanks: 926 Thanked 346 Times in 252 Posts	Hi Ken, There are a lot of logical ideas here. I don't see any symptoms that point to head gasket failure. If it was it is certain you would have oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil or a consistently dead cylinder - or some combination of those 3. I think you may have a couple of smaller issues happening. The oil in the spark plug wells is the main symptom of cam cover gasket/seal leakage. Some cam cover gasket systems use separate o-ring seals at the bottom of the spark plug wells. I haven't seen one of these engines, but this problem (oil in plug wells) is common with many engine manufacturers. It will cause rough running of the engine as Roverbarmy said. The exhaust smoke is not conclusive. Is it definitely blue? Could it be grey or black? Rich running would likely result in grey smoke which when combined with the normal exhaust condensate vapours in cooler weather could look blueish, I guess. Incomplete combustion due to misfire caused by the oil in the plug wells may imitate rich mixture for that (those) cylinder(s). If it was smoke from a head gasket failure, it would almost certainly be white and smell distinctly sweet like antifreeze. Was there anything noteworthy about your last drive in the car before the week long layup? Cheers, Glenn __________________ Southern Slovakia Anything can happen in Formula 1 and usually does - Murray Walker 1999 Triumph Trophy 900, Saddlesore 1600, Iron Butt Riders Association #63720 2005 Rover 75 CDT Tourer MK2 Last edited by slovcan; 28th January 2018 at 14:56..

28th January 2018, 15:58	#16
KenR Loves to post 2.5 V6 Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: North London Posts: 286 Thanks: 57 Thanked 45 Times in 38 Posts	Hi Glenn, the car has been absolutely faultless running-wise until I had to leave it alone for my stomach op on the 18th and am not allowed to drive for another few days. However, I went to start her up as I have done previously and that is when it all went wrong, I didn't get the opportunity initially to really have a good look at the smoke coming out of the exhaust but have since realised it is not white, nor does it smell of coolant at all. It is nearer a very light blue/grey colour which would tie in with the other symptoms of cam cover gasket death. Feel more reassured now and will tackle this as soon as the gasket arrives. In the interim, I am in the process of cleaning out the oil from the plug tubes and I will clean up the leakage on the exhaust. Worth a try for the cost of a gasket and a bit of time. I'll hang fire on changing the inlet manifold gasket just yet. Thanks again. __________________ 2002 MG ZT 160 - Le Mans Green 1996 MGF VVC BRG 1975 Triumph Toledo 2 litre 1996 Ford Galaxy 2.0 petrol Last edited by KenR; 30th January 2018 at 19:14..

30th January 2018, 09:08	#17
murphyv310 This is my second home Hyundai i10 998cc Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Kilmarnock Posts: 6,602 Thanks: 2,088 Thanked 2,298 Times in 1,349 Posts	Hi. An external oil leak will not cause the engine to sound rough or emit smoke from the exhaust tail pipe. Yes it can drip into the plug hole recesses and onto the exhaust and burn off but if you didn't have these issues before it wasn't run for a week or two well there is something amiss. A totally daft suggestion could be that you had a severe frost and if the cooling system had no antifreeze then you may have a cracked head or something else causing a big oil leak due to a fracture. One thing I'd say is although the coolant had K seal in it, not every time does it cause an issue, again a perfectly good running car wont suddenly go wrong when left for a week or so with K seal in it. Look elsewhere for the problem. Head Gaskets don't fail when a car is not running, its overheating, low coolant etc that gives HGF. __________________ Cheers from Trevor MM0KJJ

30th January 2018, 15:52	#18
KenR Loves to post 2.5 V6 Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: North London Posts: 286 Thanks: 57 Thanked 45 Times in 38 Posts	Okay, I replaced the cam cover gasket this afternoon. Nice and simple. Job done. Plugs were sooty, plus oily on plug number 3, the one the N/S coil pack sits on. Good sparks happening. Started the car, exactly the same. Missing and blue/grey smoke issuing forth from the exhaust although no major oily mess in the tail pipe itself. Friend thinks poss injector issue or HGF... I have no clue. He isn't a fuel injection fiddler. He focuses on older stuff tbh. Like early 1900's Levassor taxis and so on and other things a bit newer but not by much. __________________ 2002 MG ZT 160 - Le Mans Green 1996 MGF VVC BRG 1975 Triumph Toledo 2 litre 1996 Ford Galaxy 2.0 petrol

30th January 2018, 17:40	#19
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,050 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	Did you put new plugs in? __________________ Oil in my veins!