The fueling problem gets more bizarre...

mkilpatr · 1st December 2022, 15:31

OK, so after my recent saga of the 1.8T 75 conking out or failing start, progressively worse and my having determined that I my fuel filter hadn't separated (see other recent threads), my local garage determined that the fuel lifter was dying and then eventually dead. He ordered a replacement and fitted it this morning and ran the car for 30 mins and then up and down the A505 for 15 mins, then rang to say I could collect it as he was just putting the rear seat cushion back in and there were no new error codes to read from the diagnostics.

I walked down the road and tried to drive it off. The car spluttered and stalled twice.

The previous lifter was definitely dead, he said, and the car fired up nicely as soon as the new one was fitted. The only thing that had changed between his successful 45 minutes of idling and running was that he had put the back seat cushion back in.

Marvellous. Now what?

Michael

SD1too · 1st December 2022, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkilpatr

Marvellous. Now what?

First of all Michael, have you fitted the "orange" clip? If not, do that straight away.

Simon

mbonwick · 2nd December 2022, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkilpatr

Marvellous. Now what?

Replace the filter. I had similar (though not as severe) symptoms as you, realised it was always better on a Monday having sat for the weekend - turned out the fuel filter in the tank was clogged, and some of the gunk settled out over the weekend.

Some will tell you that the filter never needs replacing as it's not on the MGR service schedule - but the identical part in the MINI is on the BMW service list, so for me that says it all.

FLYING BANANA · 2nd December 2022, 17:48

Check the fuel pump relay on the fuse board under the glovebox. That was where my problem lay. The relay has 3 pins. Live in, live out and a earth. But it was not earthing causing the car to cut out or non starting.

That was found after one garage had replaced the fuel pump/filter and had the orange clip fitted.

mkilpatr · 3rd December 2022, 09:05

I already renewed the fuel pump relay. The very first thing I did was buy a couple of the appropriate relays. If there's a fault, it will be external to the relay.

SD1too · 3rd December 2022, 11:31

Michael,

Have you seen my post no 2 please?

Do you have a multimeter and a wish to do some diagnostics yourself?

Simon

StewartIngram · 3rd December 2022, 17:10

On the previous 2.5 petrol, I had problems with the fuel supply from the tank. Without going through the whole saga, which started with fuel gauge problems caused by the floats in the tank (which I eventually fixed), here is a quick breakdown of the problems I found:
1. No orange clip fitted (though filter not separated). New one ordered off ebay.
2. When fitting the clip, I found no filter element within the filter (from new?) Expensive one sourced from Rimmers.
3. Both filter and pump were not totally removed from tank; I had to work with them still partially immersed in petrol. Don't forget I was playing with the floats at the time, and I found it easier to remove those from pump & filter at times.
4. Because it is a "wriggle" exercise to get the pump and filter reseated, it is VERY easy to get the pipe connections dislodged, or the pipes get squashed. This leads to further fuelling problems.
5. If the plug is removed from the top of the pump, it is possible to check the resistance of each float to make sure they are properly fitted, without further dismantling. Obviously using a multimeter. I can't remember the readings but they are on the site somewhere.

mkilpatr · 5th December 2022, 14:56

I picked up the car just now. My local mechanic had played with it all morning and found no system faults of any description. The only thing he thought was possible was that the rear seat cushion was pulling on the wires under it, and after several successive removals and refitting of the seat, the car appeared to run smoothly for a couple of hours, off and on.

We can't /really/ be sure we've got to the bottom of this, unfortunately. But what else can we do?

mkilpatr · 6th December 2022, 09:47

And I'm stuck again on the way back from driving to a dog walk. The car started cleanly and drove half a mile and then spluttered and jumped for 10 seconds before dying.

The orange clip still hasn't arrived but I see this as a red herring The filter unit is intact and solid at the moment.

How on earth is anyone going to get to the bottom of this? I'm going to try an auto electrician to see if they can find any problems such as bad earth connections or otherwise.

mkilpatr · 6th December 2022, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYING BANANA

Check the fuel pump relay on the fuse board under the glovebox. That was where my problem lay. The relay has 3 pins. Live in, live out and a earth. But it was not earthing causing the car to cut out or non starting.

That was found after one garage had replaced the fuel pump/filter and had the orange clip fitted.

Can you say exactly where the earth problem was? I already renewed the relay - it was the first thing I did. Was it a wiring issue in/near that fuse board, not the relay pins themselves?

1st December 2022, 15:31	#1
mkilpatr Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Cambridge Posts: 42 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The fueling problem gets more bizarre... OK, so after my recent saga of the 1.8T 75 conking out or failing start, progressively worse and my having determined that I my fuel filter hadn't separated (see other recent threads), my local garage determined that the fuel lifter was dying and then eventually dead. He ordered a replacement and fitted it this morning and ran the car for 30 mins and then up and down the A505 for 15 mins, then rang to say I could collect it as he was just putting the rear seat cushion back in and there were no new error codes to read from the diagnostics. I walked down the road and tried to drive it off. The car spluttered and stalled twice. The previous lifter was definitely dead, he said, and the car fired up nicely as soon as the new one was fitted. The only thing that had changed between his successful 45 minutes of idling and running was that he had put the back seat cushion back in. Marvellous. Now what? Michael

2nd December 2022, 17:48	#4
FLYING BANANA Moderator/Club Shop MG ZT 1.8t+. No.3 of 4 in Sunspot Yellow & Ford Fiesta in Black. Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Rattler Farm Posts: 22,597 Thanks: 9,270 Thanked 15,645 Times in 6,806 Posts	Check the fuel pump relay on the fuse board under the glovebox. That was where my problem lay. The relay has 3 pins. Live in, live out and a earth. But it was not earthing causing the car to cut out or non starting. That was found after one garage had replaced the fuel pump/filter and had the orange clip fitted. __________________ 233,625. That’s meet no.4 done. onen hag oll

3rd December 2022, 11:31	#6
SD1too Doesn't do things by halves Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Former Middlesex Posts: 20,430 Thanks: 1,587 Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts	Michael, Have you seen my post no 2 please? Do you have a multimeter and a wish to do some diagnostics yourself? Simon __________________ "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." Sir Henry Royce.

3rd December 2022, 09:05	#5
mkilpatr Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Cambridge Posts: 42 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I already renewed the fuel pump relay. The very first thing I did was buy a couple of the appropriate relays. If there's a fault, it will be external to the relay.

3rd December 2022, 17:10	#7
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 910 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	On the previous 2.5 petrol, I had problems with the fuel supply from the tank. Without going through the whole saga, which started with fuel gauge problems caused by the floats in the tank (which I eventually fixed), here is a quick breakdown of the problems I found: 1. No orange clip fitted (though filter not separated). New one ordered off ebay. 2. When fitting the clip, I found no filter element within the filter (from new?) Expensive one sourced from Rimmers. 3. Both filter and pump were not totally removed from tank; I had to work with them still partially immersed in petrol. Don't forget I was playing with the floats at the time, and I found it easier to remove those from pump & filter at times. 4. Because it is a "wriggle" exercise to get the pump and filter reseated, it is VERY easy to get the pipe connections dislodged, or the pipes get squashed. This leads to further fuelling problems. 5. If the plug is removed from the top of the pump, it is possible to check the resistance of each float to make sure they are properly fitted, without further dismantling. Obviously using a multimeter. I can't remember the readings but they are on the site somewhere.

5th December 2022, 14:56	#8
mkilpatr Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Cambridge Posts: 42 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I picked up the car just now. My local mechanic had played with it all morning and found no system faults of any description. The only thing he thought was possible was that the rear seat cushion was pulling on the wires under it, and after several successive removals and refitting of the seat, the car appeared to run smoothly for a couple of hours, off and on. We can't /really/ be sure we've got to the bottom of this, unfortunately. But what else can we do?

6th December 2022, 09:47	#9
mkilpatr Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Cambridge Posts: 42 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	And I'm stuck again on the way back from driving to a dog walk. The car started cleanly and drove half a mile and then spluttered and jumped for 10 seconds before dying. The orange clip still hasn't arrived but I see this as a red herring The filter unit is intact and solid at the moment. How on earth is anyone going to get to the bottom of this? I'm going to try an auto electrician to see if they can find any problems such as bad earth connections or otherwise.