Ignition key problem - very, very odd - Page 4

Blink · 28th January 2020, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinabrian

It has to be in position 1 to refit it Simon

Brian

I can't tell where position 1 is when the barrel is out of the steering column - there's no resistance at any point(s), the key just turns freely through 90 degrees.

As far as I can see, there are five variables and they all have to be in exactly the correct position before the barrel will go in:

1. The rectangular hole in the column
2. The corresponding protrusion on the back of the barrel
3. The arm on the barrel
4. The white plunger
5. The raised section (it houses the plunger) on the side of the barrel and the two ramps on the back of the barrel

1. Rectangular hole in column

2. Corresponding protrusion on barrel

3. Arm

4. White plunger

5. Raised section

5. Ramps

Then there's the transponder ring. It has to be positioned so that the connector socket is roughly near the midpoint between these two lugs.

RoverP480 · 28th January 2020, 11:36

When I did mine I seem to remember the barrel goes back in the same orientation as when it was taken out, ie. Key in barrel and lined up so the pin can be inserted as when removing it.

Blink · 28th January 2020, 15:06

I've now got the original barrel back in. It took 40 minutes and over ten attempts.

Here's what I've learnt (and haven't learnt).

Releasing barrel from steering column

The barrel is held in place by the spring-loaded locking arm which locates in a groove running round the inside of the column socket. (NB. This groove is not visible in any of my pics). When the ignition key is at position 1, the paperclip lines up with the hole in the locking arm - the arm retracts as the clip slides into the hole. Once the arm is clear of the groove the barrel can be withdrawn from the column.

Refitting barrel to steering column

This is what I did and it eventually worked.

Using a flat screwdriver turn the rectangular hole in the centre of the column socket anti-clockwise as far as it will go. Make a mental note of the angle of the hole.

This is the steering lock ring - it's spring-loaded. Push it towards the centre of the car with a screwdriver and turn the steering wheel until the steering lock is off - the ring will not spring outwards again.

Take the ignition key out of the barrel. Push the white plunger back into the barrel until it locks and doesn't spring out again.

Offer the barrel up to the column and rotate until the raised section (1st pic below) lines up with the 'keyway' in the socket (2nd pic below).

Without changing the barrel position, rotate the transponder ring so that the connector is in between these two lugs (3rd pic below).

Push the barrel into the socket making sure the arm retracts as the barrel goes in (the arm may need helping with a flat screwdriver) - keep pushing the barrel with one hand.

This is the tricky bit. With the other hand put the ignition key in and turn slowly until you feel the rectangular protrusion (arrowed below) line up with the rectangular hole in the column socket. As soon as the two are in line the barrel will go all the way in and the locking arm will spring out into the groove - the barrel is now locked in.

What I haven't learnt

1. Why the key jammed up in the first place.
2. Where has the keyhole dust cover gone.
3. Whether this barrel is faulty or not.
4. Whether this barrel can be trusted - i.e. will the steering lock come on when it shouldn't and/or will the key jam up again.

Blink · 28th January 2020, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blink

What I haven't learn

1. Why the key jammed up in the first place.
2. Where has the keyhole dust cover gone.
3. Whether this barrel is faulty or not.
4. Whether this barrel can be trusted - i.e. will the steering lock come on when it shouldn't and/or will the key jam up again.

Above: Pic taken today. I'm starting to think the keyhole dust cover is still in there but it's sticking. Maybe it's the cause of the jam.
Below: Pic taken on 15th Jan.

This lens sees more than my eyes can!

Blink · 29th January 2020, 13:58

Yes, I think it's the reason the for the jam (as Dave said in post 6).

Here's a closer view of the pic I took yesterday.

And here's a pic I've just taken after attempting to clean the area with a flattened cotton bud soaked in petrol followed by a dash of Plusgas. The 'cover' (if that's what it is) may have flipped down further - I can't tell.

The cover seems to be made of nylon, not metal and it appears to be operated by some sort of sprung hinge mechanism. I can't see how the mechanism works (without chopping the barrel in half!) but the cover only flips down if the key has actually been turned, i.e.

A. Insert key but don't turn it - withdraw key, hinge mechanism does not click and cover stays up.
B. Insert key and turn to position 1 - turn back to position 0 and withdraw key, mechanism makes a loud click as the cover flips down.

A couple of question for everyone.

1. Does you barrel do the same as A and B?
2. Does your cover flip down further than mine has (in last pic above)?

TIA

Blink · 31st January 2020, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blink

A. Insert key but don't turn it - withdraw key, hinge mechanism does not click and cover stays up.
B. Insert key and turn to position 1 - turn back to position 0 and withdraw key, mechanism makes a loud click as the cover flips down.

A couple of question for everyone.

1. Does you barrel do the same as A and B?
2. Does your cover flip down further than mine has (in last pic above)?

... Anyone?

billh · 4th January 2021, 14:33

Resurrecting old thread.
I went to start the car this AM , key would not go in the steering/ignition lock barrel. Wiggled it about , wiggled the steering wheel, nothing. Got the spare key, tried it, nothing. After a few goes both keys went in about 2/3rds way but still not working. After lunch and reading this thread I went armed with a paper clip and poked around in the barrel, there was no dust cover thing visible, but it might have been missing for years.Then the key went in ok , steering lock unlocked and car starts, tried it a few times and all ok. What does the team think? Is there a bit of dust cover in the barrel which might get in the way again? Do I need a new barrel? I was lucky this time because the car was tucked up in its garage, another time it might be out and about.

StewartIngram · 5th January 2021, 12:14

My thoughts were that the innards of the lock are dirty, with the dust shield sticking. Personally, I would get some electronic switch cleaner in an aerosol, with the tube fitted to the can. Poking this into the lock would wash it out. You might need some light oil afterwards but probably not. WD40? Don't even think about that - it is not a lubricant, just a water repellant (In my opinion the biggest Bodger's Tool ever lol).

trikey · 5th January 2021, 12:23

No dust cover on the ign barrel.

Blink · 14th January 2021, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by billh

..... there was no dust cover thing visible, but it might have been missing for years. .....

The thing that people assume is a dust cover is actually the chamfered tip of the white spring-loaded insert/plunger - it's on the left in this pic.

29th January 2020, 13:58	#35
Blink Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Under the car Posts: 1,840 Thanks: 210 Thanked 244 Times in 221 Posts	Questions Yes, I think it's the reason the for the jam (as Dave said in post 6). Here's a closer view of the pic I took yesterday. And here's a pic I've just taken after attempting to clean the area with a flattened cotton bud soaked in petrol followed by a dash of Plusgas. The 'cover' (if that's what it is) may have flipped down further - I can't tell. The cover seems to be made of nylon, not metal and it appears to be operated by some sort of sprung hinge mechanism. I can't see how the mechanism works (without chopping the barrel in half!) but the cover only flips down if the key has actually been turned, i.e. A. Insert key but don't turn it - withdraw key, hinge mechanism does not click and cover stays up. B. Insert key and turn to position 1 - turn back to position 0 and withdraw key, mechanism makes a loud click as the cover flips down. A couple of question for everyone. 1. Does you barrel do the same as A and B? 2. Does your cover flip down further than mine has (in last pic above)? TIA Last edited by Blink; 29th January 2020 at 14:05..

5th January 2021, 12:23	#39
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,763 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	No dust cover on the ign barrel. __________________ Lest we forget..

28th January 2020, 11:36	#32
RoverP480 Gets stuck in None at the moment Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Hereford Posts: 501 Thanks: 1 Thanked 165 Times in 146 Posts	When I did mine I seem to remember the barrel goes back in the same orientation as when it was taken out, ie. Key in barrel and lined up so the pin can be inserted as when removing it.

28th January 2020, 15:06	#33
Blink Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Under the car Posts: 1,840 Thanks: 210 Thanked 244 Times in 221 Posts	I've now got the original barrel back in. It took 40 minutes and over ten attempts. Here's what I've learnt (and haven't learnt). Releasing barrel from steering column The barrel is held in place by the spring-loaded locking arm which locates in a groove running round the inside of the column socket. (NB. This groove is not visible in any of my pics). When the ignition key is at position 1, the paperclip lines up with the hole in the locking arm - the arm retracts as the clip slides into the hole. Once the arm is clear of the groove the barrel can be withdrawn from the column. Refitting barrel to steering column This is what I did and it eventually worked. Using a flat screwdriver turn the rectangular hole in the centre of the column socket anti-clockwise as far as it will go. Make a mental note of the angle of the hole. This is the steering lock ring - it's spring-loaded. Push it towards the centre of the car with a screwdriver and turn the steering wheel until the steering lock is off - the ring will not spring outwards again. Take the ignition key out of the barrel. Push the white plunger back into the barrel until it locks and doesn't spring out again. Offer the barrel up to the column and rotate until the raised section (1st pic below) lines up with the 'keyway' in the socket (2nd pic below). Without changing the barrel position, rotate the transponder ring so that the connector is in between these two lugs (3rd pic below). Push the barrel into the socket making sure the arm retracts as the barrel goes in (the arm may need helping with a flat screwdriver) - keep pushing the barrel with one hand. This is the tricky bit. With the other hand put the ignition key in and turn slowly until you feel the rectangular protrusion (arrowed below) line up with the rectangular hole in the column socket. As soon as the two are in line the barrel will go all the way in and the locking arm will spring out into the groove - the barrel is now locked in. What I haven't learnt 1. Why the key jammed up in the first place. 2. Where has the keyhole dust cover gone. 3. Whether this barrel is faulty or not. 4. Whether this barrel can be trusted - i.e. will the steering lock come on when it shouldn't and/or will the key jam up again.

4th January 2021, 14:33	#37
billh Regular poster Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denton, Manchester Posts: 78 Thanks: 14 Thanked 24 Times in 14 Posts	Resurrecting old thread. I went to start the car this AM , key would not go in the steering/ignition lock barrel. Wiggled it about , wiggled the steering wheel, nothing. Got the spare key, tried it, nothing. After a few goes both keys went in about 2/3rds way but still not working. After lunch and reading this thread I went armed with a paper clip and poked around in the barrel, there was no dust cover thing visible, but it might have been missing for years.Then the key went in ok , steering lock unlocked and car starts, tried it a few times and all ok. What does the team think? Is there a bit of dust cover in the barrel which might get in the way again? Do I need a new barrel? I was lucky this time because the car was tucked up in its garage, another time it might be out and about.

5th January 2021, 12:14	#38
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 902 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	My thoughts were that the innards of the lock are dirty, with the dust shield sticking. Personally, I would get some electronic switch cleaner in an aerosol, with the tube fitted to the can. Poking this into the lock would wash it out. You might need some light oil afterwards but probably not. WD40? Don't even think about that - it is not a lubricant, just a water repellant (In my opinion the biggest Bodger's Tool ever lol).