Diesel & Petrol Cars Banned

[Lancpudn]

Originally Posted by Dallas

I looked into buying a Renault Zoe, but we didn't feel we would benefit, more than likely we would be paying more each month on running costs.

Even if we leased the battery separately and allowed Renault to maintain it, the costs still dont allow for the limited capability on travelling, and the need for stop/start charging.

I'm hanging fire just a little bit longer because the new Gen II Nissan leaf is out in Sept with deliveries possibly at the end of the year or early 2018. the prices of the Gen I's are coming down & will fall even further.

I'm reading on forums that there are a lot of people who Nissan have allowed to lengthen their leases until the Gen II is available so there will be a good choice of late model Gen I leafs to choose from. I like the quirky look of that model

I have been genning up on Leafs for a while now & shall be armed with a OBD adapter & Leafspy pro https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...3.Leaf_Spy_Pro on my mobile phone to pick out the best one.

Edit: I forgot to mention that for the last 8/9 years we've not done more than 1500 miles a year in the cars we've had, with a range of 80/85 miles from a Leaf I don't do that mileage in a week, I'd only need to charge it overnight on cheap rate electricity once a week.

[topman]

Originally Posted by Lord Rover

Your right there and also how would it affect automotive engineers as well, With electrical engineering being a sperfic trade that's going too require more training and courses too complete in order too fully qualified.

I think many main dealers will treat this as way too promote echo friendly vehicle systems and too those who love too be green they'll sure in brace the idea.

How ever there will be some skiptetics as we've used too internal combustion engines for so long and it works.

I think some will find it take it on board I'm one of them.

However technology has too progress.

Other thing I'd like too know is can be maintained by any DIY Mechanic or will the system prove too complex and have too be sent too a specialist.

Oh you won't be on your own being sceptical, they'll be plenty about. I think this change is up there with the change from horse and cart to the car. Many at that time will have been as equally as sceptical, yet here we are with tens of millions of cars in the country.
we'll get there

[SCP440]

It will be the end of huge distances in a short period, I as I am sure many have done big distances in a day or a couple of days but how will this ever happen with batteries and recharging.

In truth even the best will only manage a 300 miles on a charge at a decent speed and then you need to sit for several hours for another 300mile run.

Several years ago I did the south of France in a day, yes it was knackering but we did it. With electric you will be lucky to do that in 2 days or use an aircraft or are they going to become electric as well?

What ever happened to hydrogen? this was going to be the future as all that comes out the exhaust is water. Top gear had a Honda in the US a few years ago tha ticked a lot of boxes.

Maybe we need 2 types of vehicles? the one that are used for mainly short runs so electric but hydrocarbon easily refilable for longer journeys. Exchangable fully charged battery packs would be another idea but that would mean all manufacturers use a common design.

[andymc]

I'd say the range is still too limited at present - both in terms of the variety of EVs available and in terms of the distance you can travel on a single charge. In that regard, Tesla and the Renault Zoe are the two best available in this market, at roughly 250 miles on a single charge. The Tesla offerings are quite pricey brand new - even the Model E (the "affordable" one) is in the same market segment as a mid-high spec BMW, Merc etc. The Zoe EV is far too expensive for what it is, and takes far too long to charge to capacity on a rapid charger.

Right now, the Hyundai Ioniq and the Nissan Leaf seem to be the best options available. The current version of the Leaf can do about 90 miles on a charge (although a new model is due for release in September, so expect that to increase to around 125 miles) and the Ioniq can already exceed 120 miles with an upgrade also due next year. In terms of charge time on a rapid charger, to go from from 15% battery to 80% the Leaf takes around 25-30 minutes, the Ioniq 15-20. 15 minutes is the most I would be willing to wait for a charge that gives me a decent additional amount of range on a longer trip, so we're just about there by now.

However, the idea with these cars is that you charge them to full at home every night - it takes about half a minute to plug one in, and means you leave the house with 100% range every day. That'd be ok by me, most of the time - I rarely do more than 50 miles in a day anyway, with occasional 90-100 mile round trips to Belfast or Derry. When that happens, I don't tend to get where I'm going and then turn round and head back home instantly, so even if I'd left the house without a full charge, a short top-up would keep me right. In terms of on-street charging for those without their own garage/driveway, I was very interested to see the development of a street-lamp charger, which - thanks to the advent of LED street-lamps - means existing infrastructure can be used with only minor adaptation and minimal cost to provide overnight charging on a much wider scale.

[murphyv310]

When Sony first marketed the Lithium ion battery I was an engineer with them. We had a course on this new battery at the time and Sony told us that charging time was slow as the battery life would be shorter with rapid charge and also it could lead to an explosion. Now we have seen how lithium ion batteries can fail spectacularly in phones. So has the batteries improved or are the car manufacturers pushing them to the limit without proper regard to safety and battery life?

[Arryhall]

Originally Posted by SCP440

It will be the end of huge distances in a short period, I as I am sure many have done big distances in a day or a couple of days but how will this ever happen with batteries and recharging.

In truth even the best will only manage a 300 miles on a charge at a decent speed and then you need to sit for several hours for another 300mile run.

Several years ago I did the south of France in a day, yes it was knackering but we did it. With electric you will be lucky to do that in 2 days or use an aircraft or are they going to become electric as well?

What ever happened to hydrogen? this was going to be the future as all that comes out the exhaust is water. Top gear had a Honda in the US a few years ago tha ticked a lot of boxes.

Maybe we need 2 types of vehicles? the one that are used for mainly short runs so electric but hydrocarbon easily refilable for longer journeys. Exchangable fully charged battery packs would be another idea but that would mean all manufacturers use a common design.

I was thinking the exact same thing! I did Belgium to Stoke on my Blackbird in one hit (well, apart from petrol station and ferry stoppages) and I did south France to home prior to that on my Triumph Trophy. I did a tour of Ireland, 2000 miles in a week, on my Triumph ST. None of that could be so easily achieved in electric vehicles. The development of battery technology is getting quicker, but it's still along way off. The faster you go, the shorter the journey, same as petrol, but petrol takes what? 5 minutes to refuel? I'd love an electric car - the quiet roads, the clean air, the total lack of diesel and petrol thrown all over the road, it'll be great! But it won't happen for a long time.
What became of the hydrogen car? Unless it was a blowing-up issue, and refueling sparsity, or a non-demand issue? Shame.

How about a battery replace idea? Pull into a "petrol" station (electricity shop???!) get a fully charged battery and shove it in your engine box area, give them your old battery for them to recharge and off you go, fully "fueled" up till the next stop and repeat. All cars would have to have the same battery type for that to work and that will NEVER happen!

I'll stick to me milk-float.

[wullie480]

I've been looking at getting a newish or new car a lot recently in fact the Mrs is getting peeved as I haven't picked one yet.
I was thinking diesel again but with all the uncertainty it'll probably be a petrol although I had looked at some hybrids but for the moment I think I'll be going petrol.

There is a few electric cars around here and a few charge points but can't recall seeing anyone other than the council vans using them.

[Luckygrandads75]

Everywhere I work in London electric cars are as common as prius .All the cabbies have them and I would love that silver gear box in my 75 .This is the future and I'd certainly be 1st in line for a battery if it could be fitted .I wouldn't miss checking me coolant before every drive.I'll be one of the last 300 Rover 75's guaranteed.

[Dallas]

Originally Posted by Lancpudn

Edit: I forgot to mention that for the last 8/9 years we've not done more than 1500 miles a year in the cars we've had, with a range of 80/85 miles from a Leaf I don't do that mileage in a week, I'd only need to charge it overnight on cheap rate electricity once a week.

You may want to hold out a bit longer yet Ian, you will be doing in the 60 range through the winter months, cold weather has an impact on these batteries, even with using the built in heaters.

Its certainly a good idea to rent/lease the battery from the manufacture, rather than own one outright. Technology brings along new schemes and upgrades which are set to make the customer dig deeper into their pockets.

Even when diesel and petrol motors become unavailable, the motorist will still be paying extortionate amounts of money to run and maintain their EV.

[andymc]

Originally Posted by murphyv310

When Sony first marketed the Lithium ion battery I was an engineer with them. We had a course on this new battery at the time and Sony told us that charging time was slow as the battery life would be shorter with rapid charge and also it could lead to an explosion. Now we have seen how lithium ion batteries can fail spectacularly in phones. So has the batteries improved or are the car manufacturers pushing them to the limit without proper regard to safety and battery life?

From what I've read, the battery durability in the Nissan Leaf has been significantly improved since the 2015 update (often referred to as "Generation 1.5"). But owner reports don't seem to indicate it being a serious issue even for 2011 cars. Plus it's possible to swap out individual failed cells in a car battery, which wouldn't be economically viable with something as small as a phone battery. In any case, in 10 years the Li-Ion batteries may actually be old tech.

Originally Posted by Arryhall

How about a battery replace idea? Pull into a "petrol" station (electricity shop???!) get a fully charged battery and shove it in your engine box area, give them your old battery for them to recharge and off you go, fully "fueled" up till the next stop and repeat. All cars would have to have the same battery type for that to work and that will NEVER happen!

I'll stick to me milk-float.

I remember reading about just that sort of battery-swap scheme being rolled out in Israel several years ago, but as you say there won't be enough consistency across the various marques as EV usage continues expanding - even with several car makers being supplied by just a small number of battery manufacturers.

Wullie - is it a main car or a second car you're looking for?