Handbrake Modification

[Mischief]

Originally Posted by Arctic

Hi John
Have you ever took your drums off cleaned them out and checked the back plate there could be lots of dust build up also have you adjusted at the rear drum disc might be best to start a new thread intech and we can use it as a progress thread once you find out what is going on in those drums and take some pics maybe pop them off at the meeet Sunday and take a look. Arctic

That would be perfect if I can get you to have a look early Sunday (I have my hospital appointment Sunday) as the handbrake was great after fitting the compensator but bad once the garage replaced the brakes.

John

[Arctic]

Originally Posted by Mischief

Sorry I must add the compensator does its job more than 100% the problem is the garage replaced all the brakes discs, pads and handbrake shoes. I just don't think they know how to adjust it on my car is all.

John

Hi John
We will have a gander on Sunday and see whats going on in them there drum discs i have dome both my cars over the last two weeks finished the MG ZT yesterday to be honest the front ones did not need changing but i now have pagid all round Arctic.

[Arctic]

Quick notice.
As the nano meet is this weekend i now only have three spare Stainless Steel compensator for sending out until after the meet when a new batch will be modified so should be back on track by Monday the 15th July.

If you would like one of the three left drop me a pm cheers Arctic.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by Arctic

Hi Richard.
I do not send out welded compensator never have and never will stainless steel only for me,

Artic - I'm finding some of your public forum verbal antics to increase your profit out of this, quite offensive. No doubt you are being even more critical via PM. Just to set the record straight....

You use stainless shackles, quite simply because you cannot work metal and you cannot weld. I have no issue with that.

I devised the original method to modify compensators and then offered the original service of exchanging old for modified. You then saw what I was doing and thought what a 'good earner' and jumped in, with your then half thought out alternative. I offered to do them and still do offer them at no profit. I am perfectly happy doing them as a simple favour to the owners of the car and have even shown members how to do them themselves. I quite openly charge the members £7 for the item, including P+P. You insist on keeping your cost a secret, but several members have said you are charging a whopping £27 for the exchange and doing it in secret via PM. Your costs are similar to mine - the shackles + pins cost around £2.50, suggesting you are making a clear profit of around £22 at least on each one, which is to put it bluntly - scandalous.

No doubt you maybe also charge for them fitting - I don't and never have. I charge just £7 whether they are posted out, or whether they drop in here for some help with the fitting. Usually i have to provide the tools, the help and the bacon butties and coffee too - spending at least a couple of hours on each, ensuring the job is done right. By right, I mean the compensator replaced, the car jacked up, the rear wheels taken off and the back end properly adjusted up, sometimes even having to remove the drums. At the end, hopefully they have learned something and my charge is still - £7, just the cost of the modified compensator.

A couple of weeks ago, I had someone drop in who had bought one of yours, but was not confident of fitting it himself - his intention was to sell the one he bought from you on and have one of my versions fitted. Last week I had a young lad drop in on his way from the north, to Oxford Uni. He had just bought the car, had no tools, zero experience, no handbrake at all and not much spare cash. He had seen your compensator, the cost and decided the welded one was not only more than adequate, but certainly a lot cheaper - he left for Oxford delighted to have a properly working handbrake. His compensator was 'stretched' and is rear adjustment, as I often find, had never been done since the car left the factory. Which is why I keep stressing the need to do the compensator mod and the rear end drum adjustment as one.

I spend around ten to fifteen minutes per compensator in the modification work, which is much more extensive and involved than yours. With the parts to hand, I could do your mod in two or three minutes per item. I modify them without charging for my time, just for a contribution towards the materials and equipment used.

As to the relative merits of the two methods - there really is not much to choose between them. As most proper engineers will tell you, stainless steel is a somewhat weaker metal than the mild steel from which the original compensators are made (read the material properties tables). Shiny and several times the cost, does not automatically mean better. The original compensator was more than adequate for the job, except there is a design flaw which left the open end unsupported. As we all ought to be aware by now, the metal does not stretch, the bend simply moves around the pin. Prevent the bend from moving and the whole thing becomes many times stronger than the original - absolutely no need for shiny shackles, that is unless you lack the means to reform and weld them. I have the skill and equipment to hand, so I weld them. You don't, so you are stuck with using shiny shackles.

So the original weld modified item is theoretically stronger than stainless, but as said I have no concerns that your shackle method is not adequately strong, my only argument is with you suggesting that my modification method might be inferior in some way - it absolutely is not. I have sent a few hundred of these out and not had a single complaint.

If you think back to your early attempts at modifying compensators Arctic, you were sending them out with the pin just peened over. A method which at the time, I expressed serious concerns over, with the possibility that the pin might come out. Happily you decided to replace the pin.

For the record - I devised my welded version, whilst at the same time considering a completely revised verion made from solid rather than the pressed steel, which would allow much more compensation for differences in the rear adjustment. Cost of the re-engineered version would have been around what Mr Arctic is charging for his simple modification, but I thought it far too much to pay so I quietly dropped the idea.

Cheaper has never necessarily equated to inferior in my book - make your own minds up.

[jubbarelly]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

And as most proper engineers will tell you, stainless steel is a somewhat weaker metal than the mild steel from which the original compensators are made. Shiny and severall times the cost, does not mean better.

Just wondering why a SS exhaust lasts longer then due to the heat it has to endure??

[DaveyC]

For the record Arctic. I am more than happy with the one you sold me and for the part, the fitting, the invaluable additional help and advice, I will happily recommend people come and see you to get theirs sorted.

Having had a father who was an industrial metalergist and chemist, I was always under the impression that stainless steel would not stretch like mild steel.

Dave

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by Arctic

My original welded compensator on left other on the right there is always a right way and a wrong way i am afraid also a cheap way and a pay for what you get way (sorry) but it is true
cheers Arctic

There is absolutely no right or wrong method, both my welded one and your shackle version work equally well, the only difference in this is I expend much more time and effort in modifying what is already there - because I can, you cannot so you have to buy a shiny shackle, plus of course I charge 1/3 the cost of yours, simply because I am not in it for making money.

Banging on about just how shiny it is, does not make it function any better or last any longer. It is a part which is completely hidden from view, no one will ever see it and the engineering of the part only needs to be adequate for the job. Both are more than adequate for the job, the original one was poorly thought out with regards to the stresses placed upon it. A slight modification fixes the issue, no need for fancy shiny shackles at all, or spray paint.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by jubbarelly

Just wondering why a SS exhaust lasts longer then due to the heat it has to endure??

That is rather obvious - SS lasts because it does not rust so easily. Mild steel rusts and especially so when it is subjected to regualar heat cycling.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by DaveyC

For the record Arctic. I am more than happy with the one you sold me and for the part, the fitting, the invaluable additional help and advice, I will happily recommend people come and see you to get theirs sorted.

Having had a father who was an industrial metalergist and chemist, I was always under the impression that stainless steel would not stretch like mild steel.

Dave

Once again - there has been no stretching at all, there has only been deformation, due to the end of the rod not being suported. SS depending on its grade, is more brittle and weaker than plain mild steel. The usual stainless steel bolts sold to replace mild steel ones for cosmetic purpose are some 50% weaker than mild steel. SS bolts can and do just suddenly sheer.

But I am absolutely not suggesting Artics shackle is likely to break.

[Arctic]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

Artic - I'm finding some of your public forum verbal antics to increase your profit out of this, quite offensive. No doubt you are being even more critical via PM. Just to set the record straight....

You use stainless shackles, quite simply because you cannot work metal and you cannot weld. I have no issue with that.

I devised the original method to modify compensators and then offered the original service of exchanging old for modified. You then saw a 'good earner' and jumped in. I offered to do them and still do offer them at no profit. I am perfectly happy doing them as a simple favour to the owners of the car and have even shown members how to do them themselves. I quite openly charge the members £7 for the item, including P+P. You insist on keeping your cost a secret, but several members have said you are charging a whopping £27 for the exchange and doing it in secret via PM. Your costs are similar to mine - the shackles + pins cost around £2.50, suggesting you are making a clear profit of around £22 at least on each one, which is to put it bluntly - scandalous.

No doubt you maybe also charge for them fitting - I don't and never have. I charge just £7 whether they are posted out, or whether they drop in here for some help with the fitting. Usually i have to provide the tools, the help and the bacon butties and coffee too - spending at least a couple of hours on each, ensuring the job is done right. By right, I mean the compensator replaced, the car jacked up, the rear wheels taken off and the back end properly adjusted up, sometimes even having to remove the drums. At the end, hopefully they have learned something and my charge is still - £7, just the cost of the modified compensator.

A couple of weeks ago, I had someone drop in who had bought one of yours, but was not confident of fitting it himself - his intention was to sell the one he bought from you on and have one of my versions fitted. Last week I had a young lad drop in on his way from the north, to Oxford Uni. He had just bought the car, had no tools, zero experience, no handbrake at all and not much spare cash. He had seen your compensator, the cost and decided the welded one was not only more than adequate, but certainly a lot cheaper - he left for Oxford delighted to have a properly working handbrake. His compensator was 'stretched' and is rear adjustment, as I often find, had never been done since the car left the factory. Which is why I keep stressing the need to do the compensator mod and the rear end drum adjustment as one.

I spend around ten to fifteen minutes per compensator in the modification work, which is much more extensive and involved than yours. With the parts to hand, I could do your mod in two or three minutes per item. I modify them without charging for my time, just for a contribution towards the materials and equipment used.

As to the relative merits of the two methods - there really is not much to choose between them. As most proper engineers will tell you, stainless steel is a somewhat weaker metal than the mild steel from which the original compensators are made (read the material properties tables). Shiny and several times the cost, does not automatically mean better. The original compensator was more than adequate for the job, except there is a design flaw which left the open end unsupported. As we all ought to be aware by now, the metal does not stretch, the bend simply moves around the pin. Prevent the bend from moving and the whole thing becomes many times stronger than the original - absolutely no need for shiny shackles, that is unless you lack the means to reform and weld them. I have the skill and equipment to hand, so I weld them. You don't, so you are stuck with using shiny shackles.

So the original weld modified item is theoretically stronger than stainless, but as said I have no concerns that your shackle method is not adequately strong, my only argument is with you suggesting that my modification method might be inferior in some way - it absolutely is not. I have sent a few hundred of these out and not had a single complaint.

If you think back to your early attempts at modifying compensators Arctic, you were sending them out with the pin just peened over. A method which at the time, I expressed serious concerns over, with the possibility that the pin might come out. Happily you decided to replace the pin.

For the record - I devised my welded version, whilst at the same time considering a completely revised verion made from solid rather than the pressed steel, which would allow much more compensation for differences in the rear adjustment. Cost of the re-engineered version would have been around what Mr Arctic is charging for his simple modification, but I thought it far too much to pay so I quietly dropped the idea.

HI Harry.
I thank you for your above observations and am not going to get into a school boy argument with you, i will let the members make there choice and if they decide that they no longer need my help i ammore than willing to let you service the whole forum.

I will say this that i have had several of your welded compensators sent to me to change as the members were not happy.

And if any member including your self think i joined this club to make vast amounts of profit you live in cuckoo land, by the time i have bought the shackle, clevis pins. split pins, hacksaw blades many, drill bits, grindstones, not forgeting the man hours theres not much in it believe me, and i am sure you could have sent me this message by PM.

Also why not buy a new compensator and weld that then it as not been reheated or cold hammered round which in it's self can form an air line crack that is what i did when i had mine welded not reform an old one makes sense to me but waht do i know not much

You do not know me or what my work ethic or capabilities are yet you presume i can not weld maybe it because i do not trust the welded forn after mine stretched again after six months, also if you think back was it not me whom first had the welded one fitted, and because i did not have the welding equipment at the time i had is professionally welded at a boat yard if they can not weld the barge and boat bussiness is in a mess.

I have no more to say on this matter or nor will i coment on your reply if you post one.

I will now be selective as to what help i offer to the club and forums because i will not stand for people slating me when i only try to help.

PS I WOULD LIKE A MODERATOR TO CLOSE THE THREAD/POSTS AS OF NOW PLEASE THATS ME FINISHED Arctic.