Master cylinder gone again in a week?

Roderick · 2nd July 2021, 08:50

Hi all, in need of help and advice. Had the Master cylinder replaced a couple of weeks ago by Tom Force in Leominster with a DMRGS model after having two LUK ones fail done by other garages. I'm in Hereford so Tom was the nearest to me who should know what he's doing, however, the first one was no good and he has got a replacement from DMRGS. This has worked for about 80 miles. Went to go out today, could not engage any gear. Engine off, it will.
I've of course tried calling TF, but can't get a reply.
Is there anyone in the Hereford area that can help with this?

It's causing real grief at the moment with unreliability. I've had a look and taken some photos, but I'm not a mechanic and don't have the knowledge, tools or anything to resolve this once and for all. I'm already getting grumblings from others to get rid which would be a shame.
Thanks, Ray

Retap · 2nd July 2021, 09:13

oh that sucks.

I have knowledge of the place you went to and personally wouldn't go back, had to threaten legal action before he would provide remedy. If you spent a lot of money maybe get a more professional garage to check the work for a possible money claim (if they can generate a report for the claim)...

In your photo the top of the gearbox looks very moist, maybe its a long shot but check that the bleed nipple photographed is actually closed properly. If you do find it open or loose I can highly recommend a reverse flush as per the thread below.

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...=reverse+bleed

Arctic · 2nd July 2021, 09:27

Remember if you touch any of the work carried out by TF or anyone else for that fact, they can say you have caused the problem and refuse to correct it, send him an email, facebook him, and keep calling him, say you intend to hire a car until the job is sorted and he will be given the bill.

You may want to contact DMGRS as well and let them know of the failing part twice in a short time, they may do something about it for you instead who knows, but it as to be put right by one or the other.

Retap · 2nd July 2021, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arctic

Remember if you touch any of the work carried out by TF or anyone else for that fact, they can say you have caused the problem and refuse to correct it, send him an email, facebook him, and keep calling him, say you intend to hire a car until the job is sorted and he will be given the bill.

You may want to contact DMGRS as well and let them know of the failing part twice in a short time, they may do something about it for you instead who knows, but it as to be put right by one or the other.

Good point.

Roderick · 2nd July 2021, 10:52

Thanks for replies. I have now heard from TF. I am aware that he is not held in the best regard on here. I would normally have Jules take a look, but being a 3.5hr journey away is just not feasible at the moment.
I have taken another look and the new cylinder looks fine – dry and OK. The blue pipe end does feel wet underneath but it's been fiddle with so much I wouldn't know if there was something amiss or not. Everything is tight.
I have messaged DMGRS for comment.
If the master is OK, than could be further down the line, ie the slave cylinder? That is in the bell end though? All of which is really nothing I could do.
Is there any way of checking what could be the cause?
Car has done 147,000.
The previous owner told me:
15/07/2011 91766mls

New clutch, hydraulic slave valve, hydraulic master valve replaced.
Quote: The AA came to rescue me because the clutch slave valve went whilst I was driving. He towed me to a garage and suggested that whilst they were stripping down the clutch from the gearbox to get at and replace this slave valve, I should also replace the master valve and clutch plate and have the DMF checked. This made sense and I did. There is no documentary evidence of this but I believe it to be true. He reckoned it was 2011.

Ian G · 2nd July 2021, 12:23

I've just sent you a PM Ray

dave lincs · 3rd July 2021, 05:49

I would suspect it is the slave cylinder failed leaking fluid into the gearbox and the new master cylinder has simply run out of fluid due to the leak

Roderick · 3rd July 2021, 10:35

Well, to follow on and much reading up on the wretched clutch system it would appear that the problem points to the slave cylinder. If that is the case it would mean that the whole clutch system needs replacing.
So, what is the best recommendation path and parts to take? Looking on DMRGS site then they say: Rover 75 / ZT CDT/CDTi Clutch Kit - Borg & Beck with OEM-Q or LuK Slave - RP1069 & UUB105301 at £169,

However, that includes a LuK slave. They get such a drubbing would that really be the best thing? They also have the Land Rover Freelander TD4 OEM-Q Slave Cylinder - UUB000070 at £59.99.
Adding all this and considerable labour time will be pricey, but worth it if it works and restores my confidence in it.

Having had two LuK master cylinders fail in two years LuK would not seem to be the best part to use? Others have said use a Freelander slave … Is there a real consensus of what is the best to use so the problem is done with for the foreseeable future?

Thanks, Ray
Photo shows new master and seems to be OK

Jamiewelch · 3rd July 2021, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roderick

Well, to follow on and much reading up on the wretched clutch system it would appear that the problem points to the slave cylinder. If that is the case it would mean that the whole clutch system needs replacing.
So, what is the best recommendation path and parts to take? Looking on DMRGS site then they say: Rover 75 / ZT CDT/CDTi Clutch Kit - Borg & Beck with OEM-Q or LuK Slave - RP1069 & UUB105301 at £169,

However, that includes a LuK slave. They get such a drubbing would that really be the best thing? They also have the Land Rover Freelander TD4 OEM-Q Slave Cylinder - UUB000070 at £59.99.
Adding all this and considerable labour time will be pricey, but worth it if it works and restores my confidence in it.

Having had two LuK master cylinders fail in two years LuK would not seem to be the best part to use? Others have said use a Freelander slave … Is there a real consensus of what is the best to use so the problem is done with for the foreseeable future?

Thanks, Ray
Photo shows new master and seems to be OK

I wouldn't go near an LUK slave, had an OEM-Q one of Matts fitted and the pedal was lovely and light

. My old diesel had an AP clutch fitted with a metal slave, the metal slave failed after 2-3k miles. Clutch plates were all good so had one of Matts slaves fitted, the car is still out there with the much bigger 330D VNT turbo fitted pushing out ridiculous torque and 180bhp

COLVERT · 3rd July 2021, 10:55

Quote--Having had two LuK master cylinders fail in two years LuK would not seem to be the best part to use? Others have said use a Freelander slave … Is there a real consensus of what is the best to use so the problem is done with for the foreseeable future?

When those two master cylinders failed were you shown the defective parts.--Something not making a lot of sense here. ---

2nd July 2021, 09:13	#2
Retap Loves to post MG ZT-T CDTi Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Lincs Posts: 288 Thanks: 73 Thanked 51 Times in 44 Posts	oh that sucks. I have knowledge of the place you went to and personally wouldn't go back, had to threaten legal action before he would provide remedy. If you spent a lot of money maybe get a more professional garage to check the work for a possible money claim (if they can generate a report for the claim)... In your photo the top of the gearbox looks very moist, maybe its a long shot but check that the bleed nipple photographed is actually closed properly. If you do find it open or loose I can highly recommend a reverse flush as per the thread below. https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...=reverse+bleed __________________ ZT-T Mk2 Jobs to do: Renew auxiliary drive belt # Replace driver door lock actuator # Refurbish wheels Last edited by Retap; 2nd July 2021 at 09:34..

2nd July 2021, 09:27	#3
Arctic Give to Learn Freelander 2 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: West Midlands Posts: 18,696 Thanks: 1,155 Thanked 6,407 Times in 3,874 Posts	Remember if you touch any of the work carried out by TF or anyone else for that fact, they can say you have caused the problem and refuse to correct it, send him an email, facebook him, and keep calling him, say you intend to hire a car until the job is sorted and he will be given the bill. You may want to contact DMGRS as well and let them know of the failing part twice in a short time, they may do something about it for you instead who knows, but it as to be put right by one or the other. __________________ Arctic Givology Learn to Give Everything is Achievable ad altiora tendo. Check out our Nano meet dates http://www.midlandsnanomeets.co.uk/ http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/index.php?thepage=howto " You do the work , we supply the expertise "

2nd July 2021, 10:52	#5
Roderick Loves to post Rover 75 CDT Connoissuer SE Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Hereford Posts: 273 Thanks: 161 Thanked 100 Times in 47 Posts	Thanks for replies. I have now heard from TF. I am aware that he is not held in the best regard on here. I would normally have Jules take a look, but being a 3.5hr journey away is just not feasible at the moment. I have taken another look and the new cylinder looks fine – dry and OK. The blue pipe end does feel wet underneath but it's been fiddle with so much I wouldn't know if there was something amiss or not. Everything is tight. I have messaged DMGRS for comment. If the master is OK, than could be further down the line, ie the slave cylinder? That is in the bell end though? All of which is really nothing I could do. Is there any way of checking what could be the cause? Car has done 147,000. The previous owner told me: 15/07/2011 91766mls New clutch, hydraulic slave valve, hydraulic master valve replaced. Quote: The AA came to rescue me because the clutch slave valve went whilst I was driving. He towed me to a garage and suggested that whilst they were stripping down the clutch from the gearbox to get at and replace this slave valve, I should also replace the master valve and clutch plate and have the DMF checked. This made sense and I did. There is no documentary evidence of this but I believe it to be true. He reckoned it was 2011. __________________ This isn't just a car, this is a Rover 75 …

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2nd July 2021, 12:23	#6
Ian G This is my second home Small Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Land of the Eel Posts: 6,315 Thanks: 2,328 Thanked 2,991 Times in 1,431 Posts	I've just sent you a PM Ray

3rd July 2021, 05:49	#7
dave lincs Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Louth Posts: 1,409 Thanks: 380 Thanked 986 Times in 476 Posts	I would suspect it is the slave cylinder failed leaking fluid into the gearbox and the new master cylinder has simply run out of fluid due to the leak

3rd July 2021, 10:55	#10
COLVERT This is my second home R75 Saloon. Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: France/or Devon. Posts: 14,003 Thanks: 3,851 Thanked 2,167 Times in 1,816 Posts	Quote--Having had two LuK master cylinders fail in two years LuK would not seem to be the best part to use? Others have said use a Freelander slave … Is there a real consensus of what is the best to use so the problem is done with for the foreseeable future? When those two master cylinders failed were you shown the defective parts.--Something not making a lot of sense here. ---