Typhoon ZT - LSM Fire - Page 3

trikey · 26th March 2020, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkshire GOC

Spotted your post on fb earlier, sorry to hear the news, at least you got out ok.

It’s not a wire issue that causes the lsm to ignite, if you open one up you will usually find dust covering everything and sometimes corrosion on the board.

I would advise everyone to strip them down and give a good clean, at least then you will have done all you can to prevent this.

You can also remove the self tappers that hold the lsm in place and the ones holding the lower panel, fit plastic scrivets instead... should the worst happen you have a chance of pulling the lsm out and quashing then flames.

Andy

2 questions - what do you clean it with - contact cleaner? and how do they come apart.

Cheers
Martin
__________________

Any cleaner suitable for elecrmteics is fine Martin, once the front switch panel is off you will see how easily the board slides out.

Yorkshire GOC · 26th March 2020, 16:11

Cheer Andy,

I happen to have a spare LSM (just in case) how do you disengage the 2 lugs that keeps the front panel onto the body and the circuit board therein - they don't seem to give and i don't want to break them .

trikey · 26th March 2020, 16:33

Just lever the front panel forwards mate

cb750chris · 26th March 2020, 19:39

I have seen a few light switch modules where the pins are corroded, and I think this is what could cause the fires.
When you put large currents through corroded pins, they get hot, I think this can then cause the plastic around the pins to get hot, until eventually a fire can start - bit of a vicious cycle - the more heat gets in to the pins, the worse the connection gets, so the hotter things get.

Canonite · 26th March 2020, 21:58

So it seems it was caused by a short on the board within the LSM.
I had washed my car that morning but although I don’t have a sunroof I think water got in somewhere.
I was parked underneath Asda at the time so the main concern was that it would cause an evacuation etc.
Thankfully it was isolated to just the LSM and some melted dash.

Preventative measures would be to ensure there are no clips, coins or screws that could drop down behind the panel and find their way through the slats on the LSM unit.
Also, is it possible to perhaps retrofit a moisture plate above it, should water find its way in and run down?
Goes without saying, ensure sunroof drains are clear and there are no leaks around the screen.

Ched · 26th March 2020, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canonite

So it seems it was caused by a short on the board within the LSM.
I had washed my car that morning but although I don’t have a sunroof I think water got in somewhere.
I was parked underneath Asda at the time so the main concern was that it would cause an evacuation etc.
Thankfully it was isolated to just the LSM and some melted dash.

Preventative measures would be to ensure there are no clips, coins or screws that could drop down behind the panel and find their way through the slats on the LSM unit.
Also, is it possible to perhaps retrofit a moisture plate above it, should water find its way in and run down?
Goes without saying, ensure sunroof drains are clear and there are no leaks around the screen.

The top corner of the screen is where the water will have entered and dripped onto the lsm, it happened to a tourer zt I bought and sold on.

After I had washed it I was drying it off and opened the drivers door and saw water on the bonnet catch handle, looking closer I saw it was on the lsm too, luckily the cover under the steering wheel was off otherwise it would have gone unnoticed.
Captain tolley's sorted the leak, evident from the trail it left.

Canonite · 27th March 2020, 06:19

The fireman suggested it wasn’t likely to be a result of car washing but I probably came across as a bit of a tail end when pointing out common leak issues etc.
I had never heard of an LSM catching fire though.

The good news is that although my trust in the car has gone, it is moving on to pastures new north of the border to be restored.

As a silver lining, it also means I can focus my time and efforts on sorting out the 190 Celestial ZT-T out

Arctic · 27th March 2020, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by trikey

Spotted your post on fb earlier, sorry to hear the news, at least you got out ok.

It’s not a wire issue that causes the lsm to ignite, if you open one up you will usually find dust covering everything and sometimes corrosion on the board.

Quote:

I would advise everyone to strip them down and give a good clean, at least then you will have done all you can to prevent this.

You can also remove the self tappers that hold the lsm in place and the ones holding the lower panel, fit plastic scrivets instead... should the worst happen you have a chance of pulling the lsm out and quashing then flames.

Hi Andy.
Great idea, so you can guess what I did today with some of the extra time I now have on my hands because of calvin 19

1

2

3

4

5

6

Screws will soon pull out then the scrivets will pop out if you pull the LSM full how to will follow in another thread BIWB

https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/s...d.php?t=303821

7

75 tinkerer · 28th March 2020, 10:10

Damp could potentially be a big problem in aircraft, think of the condensation when a plane is parked in freezing temperatures, but it has been addressed. After a PCB has been tested and before burn-in, it is cleaned and a conformal coating applied to keep out water and contamination.
The Drawing Office added the details so I can't remember which cleaner or coating was used (it was a while ago) but it appeared to be very low-tec, guys with paint brushes. I didn't spend much time in the production area, helping with fault-finding now and again. Maybe someone here has more experience but presumably any Conformal Coating would be better than none, have a look at the Farnell,CPC or RS websites. And remember to mask off the mating surfaces of any connectors. I use IPA for cleaning everything but will buy the real thing for this job. You could apply it to all the electronics boxes during this period of self-isolation…..?
Pete

Arctic · 28th March 2020, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75 tinkerer

Damp could potentially be a big problem in aircraft, think of the condensation when a plane is parked in freezing temperatures, but it has been addressed. After a PCB has been tested and before burn-in, it is cleaned and a conformal coating applied to keep out water and contamination.
The Drawing Office added the details so I can't remember which cleaner or coating was used (it was a while ago) but it appeared to be very low-tec, guys with paint brushes. I didn't spend much time in the production area, helping with fault-finding now and again. Maybe someone here has more experience but presumably any

Quote:

Conformal Coating would be better than none, have a look at the Farnell,CPC or RS websites. And remember to mask off the mating surfaces of any connectors. I use IPA for cleaning everything but will buy the real thing for this job. You could apply it to all the electronics boxes during this period of self-isolation…..?
Pete

Hi Pete.
Doesn't IPA still have a certain amount of water in it depending what ratio is used? I think 99% is the best you can get unless anyone knows of an 100% IPA

I would presume its best for any dust etc to be removed either by blowing or using an easel soft painting brush, if any electrical cleaner is used it is best to wait until it as dried or evaporated before re-fitting the electric component before using again.

26th March 2020, 16:11	#22
Yorkshire GOC I really should get out more....... Rover 75 connoisseur se v6 auto Join Date: May 2014 Location: Hull Posts: 2,063 Thanks: 1,842 Thanked 623 Times in 469 Posts	Cheer Andy, I happen to have a spare LSM (just in case) how do you disengage the 2 lugs that keeps the front panel onto the body and the circuit board therein - they don't seem to give and i don't want to break them . __________________ She came off the Longbridge Line on 20-05-2003 The Silver Machine was the 13th of 160 Rover 75's to come off the production line that day and is the 100th of 527 Starlight Silver Rover 75 2.5 V6 Connoisseur SE Auto saloons listed in the build records produced world wide.

26th March 2020, 16:33	#23
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,764 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	Just lever the front panel forwards mate __________________ Lest we forget..

26th March 2020, 19:39	#24
cb750chris Trader Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Portsmouth Posts: 849 Thanks: 201 Thanked 292 Times in 200 Posts	I have seen a few light switch modules where the pins are corroded, and I think this is what could cause the fires. When you put large currents through corroded pins, they get hot, I think this can then cause the plastic around the pins to get hot, until eventually a fire can start - bit of a vicious cycle - the more heat gets in to the pins, the worse the connection gets, so the hotter things get. __________________ Now offering T4 services in the Fareham area Replacement keys programmed / supplied / cut Diesel 135 upgrade available IPK virginisation and T4 matching available Sorry, due to a big change in home circumstances, I am unable to do any large jobs at present, but can still offer evening time diagnostics.

26th March 2020, 21:58	#25
Canonite This is my second home BMW 330d Tourer, MG ZT 180 SE XPG, VW Polo 6R 1.2 TDI Bluemotion Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: York Posts: 6,022 Thanks: 363 Thanked 574 Times in 319 Posts	So it seems it was caused by a short on the board within the LSM. I had washed my car that morning but although I don’t have a sunroof I think water got in somewhere. I was parked underneath Asda at the time so the main concern was that it would cause an evacuation etc. Thankfully it was isolated to just the LSM and some melted dash. Preventative measures would be to ensure there are no clips, coins or screws that could drop down behind the panel and find their way through the slats on the LSM unit. Also, is it possible to perhaps retrofit a moisture plate above it, should water find its way in and run down? Goes without saying, ensure sunroof drains are clear and there are no leaks around the screen.

27th March 2020, 06:19	#27
Canonite This is my second home BMW 330d Tourer, MG ZT 180 SE XPG, VW Polo 6R 1.2 TDI Bluemotion Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: York Posts: 6,022 Thanks: 363 Thanked 574 Times in 319 Posts	The fireman suggested it wasn’t likely to be a result of car washing but I probably came across as a bit of a tail end when pointing out common leak issues etc. I had never heard of an LSM catching fire though. The good news is that although my trust in the car has gone, it is moving on to pastures new north of the border to be restored. As a silver lining, it also means I can focus my time and efforts on sorting out the 190 Celestial ZT-T out

28th March 2020, 10:10	#29
75 tinkerer Regular poster Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Darlington Posts: 95 Thanks: 12 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	Damp could potentially be a big problem in aircraft, think of the condensation when a plane is parked in freezing temperatures, but it has been addressed. After a PCB has been tested and before burn-in, it is cleaned and a conformal coating applied to keep out water and contamination. The Drawing Office added the details so I can't remember which cleaner or coating was used (it was a while ago) but it appeared to be very low-tec, guys with paint brushes. I didn't spend much time in the production area, helping with fault-finding now and again. Maybe someone here has more experience but presumably any Conformal Coating would be better than none, have a look at the Farnell,CPC or RS websites. And remember to mask off the mating surfaces of any connectors. I use IPA for cleaning everything but will buy the real thing for this job. You could apply it to all the electronics boxes during this period of self-isolation…..? Pete