RAC report into headlight dazzle

hinged_bap · 10th January 2024, 09:55

About time too ( but should've included high powered flashing LED cycle lights ).
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/mot...adlight-glare/

torque2me · 10th January 2024, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by hinged_bap

About time too ( but should've included high powered flashing LED cycle lights ).
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/mot...adlight-glare/

Yeah, now that you mention it there are some very bright front light(s) on cycles (plus e-scooters), some of which are flashing. Don't suppose they thought that would be a possibility (and adopted) when the powers to be undertook lighting legislation.

Kev

CharlieCavalier1992 · 10th January 2024, 11:33

Happens every morning - the new cars are terrible, especially with the SUVs being higher than a proper car

planenut · 10th January 2024, 11:34

Not much chance of control on transport operating outside of legislation.

Certainly bright LED's can be dazzling and induce headaches, but I can see that legislation can only be applied at manufacture and/or annual testing. As seen with several items "controlled" by the test, once a vehicle leaves the testing centre, there is no enforcement of legislation.

hogweed · 10th January 2024, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieCavalier1992

Happens every morning - the new cars are terrible, especially with the SUVs being higher than a proper car

Always refer to them as "vans" rather than SUVs, 4x4's etc. Really winds the owners up

Yorkshire GOC · 10th January 2024, 16:26

i must admit many of these newer lights simply dazzle you

Rev Jules · 10th January 2024, 17:38

I just wont drive at night unless I have to, and some these idiots wil not turn off their high beam.

Plezier · 11th January 2024, 08:13

Well it's all down to the idiot designers and manufacturers and their never ending chase for what they think looks good. Long gone are the days when lighting on cars was properly functional so now we have cars with tiny indicators that are invisible in sunlight and often when the head lights are on, wonder jut how many collisions this is responsible for?. and headlights often purely designed to look good and be seen in city conditions and not to actually light up the way or road ahead as they really should and it seems no thought whats so ever is given to the poor drivers coming towards the vehicle and if they are dazzled or even blinded by the lights. Of course bulb manufacturers also share the blame with some bulbs seemingly designed for show and not to do the job they are really supposed to do. My first 75 had some stupid blue very bright bulbs fitted fine for city use under arc lamps but they only showed up the roadway for about 20 feet in front of the car. Absolutely useless where we lived where the nearest streetlamp was half a mile away so I purchased a pair of Osram Night Breakers and installed them and the difference was night and day amazingly one could now actually see the road ahead ad actually be able to drive at night!

Safety be damned it's all about looks and nothing else matters.

SteveThackery · 11th January 2024, 10:22

To be fair, though, all car lighting must comply with EU (and British) regulations regarding brightness, colour, position, size, angle of visibility, etc.

Car makers may well indulge themselves when it comes to styling, but cars with non-compliant lighting wouldn't find their way into the showrooms.

Perhaps the regulations need reviewing?

StewartIngram · 11th January 2024, 11:28

I've never found an answer to what is the maximum brightness of led headlights (and others come to that). In the days of filament lamps, headlights should be no more than 55W, brake & flashers 21W and side /tail 5W. This was of course using wattage as the way of measuring the brightness of a bulb. Come the introduction of leds, this method ceased as they were more efficient, ie less current was needed. So the ohms law calculation no longer applies. Think of your old bulb in the house - typically 60W. Nowadays, look at the screwfix catalogue etc, its probably classed as a 5-9W led bulb (can't remember exactly without looking) for the same brightness. Imagine what a 55W led headlamp would be like!
Another problem is that a filament bulb shines 360 degrees around its glass globe (less of course the effect of its base). The light from the bulb is concentrated by the (then) sensible reflector and projected forwards, in a concentrated beam as required by its use. In contrast, an led is a diode, which emits light, from its flat surface. The led projects forwards in a narrow beam, so its usefulness is restricted to that angle. Widen the angle to produce the same angle as a bulb and there is less forward projection. The led seems not to have the power to project over distance; rathe like a child having less power to throw a ball than an adult. (Note leds in general are constructed with 2 main angles, for differing use).
Now to get back to my point of the legal 55W max with headlight. How are leds described in regulations? Is there now a change to something like lumens (a light measurement) defined or what? Or are manufactures just putting the brightest ones on that they can find? Also, look at a sidelight, that uses multiple leds each in the same housing, so is the bulb (in filament terms) much more than the old 5W max?

10th January 2024, 09:55	#1
hinged_bap Gets stuck in 75 CDT Conn SE Auto saloon Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Southampton Posts: 773 Thanks: 134 Thanked 104 Times in 81 Posts	RAC report into headlight dazzle About time too ( but should've included high powered flashing LED cycle lights ). https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/mot...adlight-glare/

10th January 2024, 16:26	#6
Yorkshire GOC I really should get out more....... Rover 75 connoisseur se v6 auto Join Date: May 2014 Location: Hull Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 1,842 Thanked 623 Times in 469 Posts	i must admit many of these newer lights simply dazzle you __________________ She came off the Longbridge Line on 20-05-2003 The Silver Machine was the 13th of 160 Rover 75's to come off the production line that day and is the 100th of 527 Starlight Silver Rover 75 2.5 V6 Connoisseur SE Auto saloons listed in the build records produced world wide.

11th January 2024, 08:13	#8
Plezier I really should get out more....... Mercedes C Class CDI estate (2003) Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gradina Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 62 Thanked 137 Times in 119 Posts	Well it's all down to the idiot designers and manufacturers and their never ending chase for what they think looks good. Long gone are the days when lighting on cars was properly functional so now we have cars with tiny indicators that are invisible in sunlight and often when the head lights are on, wonder jut how many collisions this is responsible for?. and headlights often purely designed to look good and be seen in city conditions and not to actually light up the way or road ahead as they really should and it seems no thought whats so ever is given to the poor drivers coming towards the vehicle and if they are dazzled or even blinded by the lights. Of course bulb manufacturers also share the blame with some bulbs seemingly designed for show and not to do the job they are really supposed to do. My first 75 had some stupid blue very bright bulbs fitted fine for city use under arc lamps but they only showed up the roadway for about 20 feet in front of the car. Absolutely useless where we lived where the nearest streetlamp was half a mile away so I purchased a pair of Osram Night Breakers and installed them and the difference was night and day amazingly one could now actually see the road ahead ad actually be able to drive at night! Safety be damned it's all about looks and nothing else matters. __________________ Classic SE CDT sadly lost in a severe collision.

11th January 2024, 10:22	#9
SteveThackery Avid contributor Rover 75 Connoisseur SE saloon, 2.5 KV6 automatic, 2002, White Gold Join Date: Oct 2023 Location: Nottingham Posts: 197 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	To be fair, though, all car lighting must comply with EU (and British) regulations regarding brightness, colour, position, size, angle of visibility, etc. Car makers may well indulge themselves when it comes to styling, but cars with non-compliant lighting wouldn't find their way into the showrooms. Perhaps the regulations need reviewing? __________________ If it ain't broke, keep fixing it until it is.

10th January 2024, 11:33	#3
CharlieCavalier1992 Newbie Rover 75 Saloon 1.8T Join Date: Oct 2023 Location: essex Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Happens every morning - the new cars are terrible, especially with the SUVs being higher than a proper car

10th January 2024, 11:34	#4
planenut Regional Secretary Rover 1.8T Tourer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Heathrow Posts: 6,972 Thanks: 1,551 Thanked 2,036 Times in 1,264 Posts	Not much chance of control on transport operating outside of legislation. Certainly bright LED's can be dazzling and induce headaches, but I can see that legislation can only be applied at manufacture and/or annual testing. As seen with several items "controlled" by the test, once a vehicle leaves the testing centre, there is no enforcement of legislation.

10th January 2024, 17:38	#7
Rev Jules This is my second home Rover 75 Tourer+ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Radcliffe on Trent Posts: 10,718 Thanks: 7,308 Thanked 3,929 Times in 2,051 Posts	I just wont drive at night unless I have to, and some these idiots wil not turn off their high beam.

11th January 2024, 11:28	#10
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 915 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	I've never found an answer to what is the maximum brightness of led headlights (and others come to that). In the days of filament lamps, headlights should be no more than 55W, brake & flashers 21W and side /tail 5W. This was of course using wattage as the way of measuring the brightness of a bulb. Come the introduction of leds, this method ceased as they were more efficient, ie less current was needed. So the ohms law calculation no longer applies. Think of your old bulb in the house - typically 60W. Nowadays, look at the screwfix catalogue etc, its probably classed as a 5-9W led bulb (can't remember exactly without looking) for the same brightness. Imagine what a 55W led headlamp would be like! Another problem is that a filament bulb shines 360 degrees around its glass globe (less of course the effect of its base). The light from the bulb is concentrated by the (then) sensible reflector and projected forwards, in a concentrated beam as required by its use. In contrast, an led is a diode, which emits light, from its flat surface. The led projects forwards in a narrow beam, so its usefulness is restricted to that angle. Widen the angle to produce the same angle as a bulb and there is less forward projection. The led seems not to have the power to project over distance; rathe like a child having less power to throw a ball than an adult. (Note leds in general are constructed with 2 main angles, for differing use). Now to get back to my point of the legal 55W max with headlight. How are leds described in regulations? Is there now a change to something like lumens (a light measurement) defined or what? Or are manufactures just putting the brightest ones on that they can find? Also, look at a sidelight, that uses multiple leds each in the same housing, so is the bulb (in filament terms) much more than the old 5W max?