Belts & Water Pumps

Dallas · 18th June 2018, 18:40

I've bought myself a few 1.8 k-series timing belt kits, I bought 2x Gates Powergrip timing belt kits, also the INA timing belt kit, and the Dayco timing belt kit, and a Quinton Hazel belt which turned out to be the wrong belt.

This may sound strange to some of you, but I actually find the INA kit to be the better kit in regards to quality. I obviously dont know for sure if the INA kit is in fact better than the others, its just my own opinion. How I came to my views on this was the fact that the INA kit seems to have a better quality belt, similar to the Gates belt.

Also the INA water pump has a metal propeller, where the Gates water pump has a plastic propeller, but the Gates pump weighs 36g heavier even though the propeller is made from plastic.

I also bought a Valeo pump which also has a metal propeller, this looks identical to the INA pump regarding build, materials and weight.

What are peoples views on squared teeth belts with the V groove and the HTD belts with the rounded teeth?
I have found the INA belt to give a much better tooth profile than the Dayco and QH belts, the INA belt seems better in quality and is 5g heavier. than the Dayco belt. The Dayco belt is the lightest of them all, and bar far the worst looking in appearance.

The Gates and INA belts show the high strength cord is clearly visible, the rubber and fibre compound seems stronger, heavier and far better quality.

Isn't it true, the HTD round tooth belts mesh and de-mesh with the pulley a lot smoother than a square tooth belt, allowing higher speeds and less wear? You can see this from looking at the photos below, I've also heard that the HTD round tooth belts last longer, less wear... Is this why Dayco belts seem to get a lot of bad press?

These are the 4x belts... top to bottom: Gates, INA, Dayco and QH.

INA Round tooth.

Dayco Squared V-Groove.

Gates plastic propeller WP 685G.

INA metal propeller WP 649g.

Valeo metal propeller WP 650g.

Mike Noc · 19th June 2018, 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas

INA Round tooth.

Dayco Squared V-Groove.

Looking at the photos the teeth on the Dayco belt are equally spaced around the sprocket and would drive equally, but there are uneven gaps in the meshing of the teeth on the INA belt - from left to right the first two teeth each have a gap to the left, the next one looks pretty much central but there is a gap either side of it, and the one after that has a gap to the right.

Mickyboy · 19th June 2018, 07:59

Not very impressed with the INA belt it appears not to fit as well as the Dayco belt, I would expect the slight free play in it at the teeth or cause it to wear quicker
Mick

trikey · 19th June 2018, 09:04

I’ve fitted lots of dayco and gates belts, I’m with mike on the other one, the little gaps look wrong to me!

mh007 · 19th June 2018, 09:19

Dayco & Gates are my preference & pretty much the only makes I tend to fit.

Dallas · 19th June 2018, 12:25

It may be the angle I took the photo at that is giving the impression of the gap. I've just physically checked them again and I cant see a gap, it could be where the INA belt is sitting slightly back on the WP pulley though...

sworks · 19th June 2018, 18:34

I personally only use Gates and never had an issue over the years

Dallas · 19th June 2018, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by sworks

I personally only use Gates and never had an issue over the years

I was surprised to learn that the Gates water pump has a plastic propeller, where the INA and Valeo pumps have metal propellers.

Dallas · 19th June 2018, 20:22

... and its interesting to learn that Gates Powergrip belts are HTD belts that have the round tooth curvature, the same as the INA belt.

It appears many of these manufactures make both belt designs, such as the standard belt, the V-groove belt like the Dayco one I have, and then there's the HTD belt such as the Gates and INA belt that I also bought.

Taken from the Gates website
The curvilinear construction of PowerGrip® HTD® timing belt tooth geometry serves the following purpose: It removes stress concentration at the teeth roots which in turn gives a higher power handling capacity and longer timing belt life.

So when choosing you timing belt, its not just about choosing a brand... Its also about choosing what belt design is best, this will also have an impact on belt life.

Does anyone know if Dayco offer the HTD belts for our cars, because I cant find one?

sworks · 20th June 2018, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas

I was surprised to learn that the Gates water pump has a plastic propeller, where the INA and Valeo pumps have metal propellers.

I’ve not used one of there water pumps, I generally use a Gates cambelt kit and if the pump needs changing go genuine if possible.

19th June 2018, 07:59	#3
Mickyboy SERVICING AND DEALER DIAGNOSTICS MG ZT CDTI 135 + & MGZT CDTI AUTO 160 & ROVER 75 TOURER CDTI 160 TROPHY YELLOW Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Hernebay Posts: 4,331 Thanks: 818 Thanked 2,414 Times in 1,141 Posts	Not very impressed with the INA belt it appears not to fit as well as the Dayco belt, I would expect the slight free play in it at the teeth or cause it to wear quicker Mick __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] T4 Owner Jobs done : new UBP, Spy hole mod, Rear hub(wheel bearing),plenum cleaned and emptied, Inline thermostat fitted,Full service, In car Digital tv/DVD Bluetooth Satnav etc, Replaced UBP, Restored headlights,Fixed airbag connection.replaced HP pump,replaced rear light seals,changed intercooler O rings. Jobs to do: ,replace drivers lock,.[/SIZE]

19th June 2018, 09:04	#4
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,763 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	I’ve fitted lots of dayco and gates belts, I’m with mike on the other one, the little gaps look wrong to me! __________________ Lest we forget..

19th June 2018, 18:34	#7
sworks Been absent for a while… Rover 75 Tourer, Classic mini Cooper S, Abarth 595 competizione, MG TF and a Hyundai Tucson PHEV Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cumbria Posts: 13,065 Thanks: 1,033 Thanked 1,686 Times in 1,040 Posts	I personally only use Gates and never had an issue over the years __________________ ................................................. 'Marmite' Possibly one of the most famous 75 tourers produced! left the production line as the last of only Three Rover 75 tourers produced in Trophy Yellow. 48 hours later Longbridge closed. The last sold ordered 75 Tourer. Paid for by the Phoenix Four and handed over by John Towers to the Warwickshire Northampton Air ambulance service as a Rapid Response vehicle

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19th June 2018, 09:19	#5
mh007 This is my second home MG ZT260 SE, MG ZT190+, MG ZTT 160, R75 Conn SE 2.0, R75 Conn SE 2.5 X 3, R75 Club SE 1.8, P5B Coupe Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Keynsham, Bristol Posts: 4,211 Thanks: 65 Thanked 635 Times in 499 Posts	Dayco & Gates are my preference & pretty much the only makes I tend to fit.

19th June 2018, 12:25	#6
Dallas This is my second home 1979 Capri 1.6L, 1982 Capri 1.6L, 2016 Dacia Stepway Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dorset Posts: 8,595 Thanks: 3,496 Thanked 3,397 Times in 2,218 Posts	It may be the angle I took the photo at that is giving the impression of the gap. I've just physically checked them again and I cant see a gap, it could be where the INA belt is sitting slightly back on the WP pulley though...

19th June 2018, 20:22	#9
Dallas This is my second home 1979 Capri 1.6L, 1982 Capri 1.6L, 2016 Dacia Stepway Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dorset Posts: 8,595 Thanks: 3,496 Thanked 3,397 Times in 2,218 Posts	... and its interesting to learn that Gates Powergrip belts are HTD belts that have the round tooth curvature, the same as the INA belt. It appears many of these manufactures make both belt designs, such as the standard belt, the V-groove belt like the Dayco one I have, and then there's the HTD belt such as the Gates and INA belt that I also bought. Taken from the Gates website The curvilinear construction of PowerGrip® HTD® timing belt tooth geometry serves the following purpose: It removes stress concentration at the teeth roots which in turn gives a higher power handling capacity and longer timing belt life. So when choosing you timing belt, its not just about choosing a brand... Its also about choosing what belt design is best, this will also have an impact on belt life. Does anyone know if Dayco offer the HTD belts for our cars, because I cant find one?