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Old 7th November 2021, 18:18   #11
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It will be the 40year birthday that will decide if they will ever be a classic. My guess a lot less EV's will get to that milestone with all the electronic complexity, a lot of stuff made in the last decade struggles to survive more than 7 years past the warranty period. So much stuff these days is made of tissue paper and/or chocolate. You only have to go to a car breakers to see how much modern stuff is being scrapped because of expensive electrical faults and that will be even worse when the drive train is also electric.

I know we are not going to stop this electric revolution but hopefully I will be long gone when it is the only way we can legally travel.

Hopefully some common sense comes into play and Hydrogen is another option.
But---Will the future EV's need to be complex ??

I agree they will probably made out of rubbish but maybe not get scrapped because of what must end up as simpler electrics. The drive train will very simple too.

HYDROGEN.--Have you ever looked up the cost of production ???--
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Old 7th November 2021, 21:45   #12
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People have been arguing about what will become classics for as long as there have been cars! Someone mentioned new cars being made cheaply however cars in the past were made pretty cheaply too! I remember having a 7 year old Montego that had to have the sills welded to pass an MOT. That's actually pretty poor compared to modern cars. My Volvo C70 that I just sold had not rust at all and that was 13 years old.

I do agree that cars will become more tricky to keep on the road however that's down to the electronic systems and that's the same regardless of whether there's an engine under the bonnet or an electric motor. That said things are improving, at least with newer cars I can use an app and dongle to diagnose issues, it's actually much more tricky with my Rover Sterling as it pre-dated ODB and not having access to a testbook it means that if anything fails diagnosing it will be very difficult.
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Old 7th November 2021, 21:48   #13
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But---Will the future EV's need to be complex ??

I agree they will probably made out of rubbish but maybe not get scrapped because of what must end up as simpler electrics. The drive train will very simple too.

HYDROGEN.--Have you ever looked up the cost of production ???--
They wont need to be complex but all manufacturers seem to make everything over complicated just because they can. Try resetting the tyre pressure monitor on some Nissans for example.

The problem is if we dont buy new ones every few years there factories dont make any money so built in obsolescence is the only way manufacturers make money and they dont do it because they are nice companies.

Yes agreed Hydrogen is crazy money but with mass production and higher demand it could be a viable option, at present it costs twice as much per mile to run on Hydrogen than it does on Fossil fuels but hopefully as people realise Battery powers has its limitations it should be a viable option.
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Old 7th November 2021, 22:07   #14
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They wont need to be complex but all manufacturers seem to make everything over complicated just because they can. Try resetting the tyre pressure monitor on some Nissans for example.

The problem is if we dont buy new ones every few years there factories dont make any money so built in obsolescence is the only way manufacturers make money and they dont do it because they are nice companies.

Yes agreed Hydrogen is crazy money but with mass production and higher demand it could be a viable option, at present it costs twice as much per mile to run on Hydrogen than it does on Fossil fuels but hopefully as people realise Battery powers has its limitations it should be a viable option.
Hydrogen really isn't the answer and for passenger cars I suspect will just become a footnote in history. Mass production might make things like producing the fuel cells cheaper however producing the actual hydrogen will always remain far more inefficient then storing power in batteries.
Personally I also can't see the appeal in still having to go to a fuel station to refill when I can just plug in at home
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Old 8th November 2021, 10:43   #15
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Hydrogen really isn't the answer and for passenger cars I suspect will just become a footnote in history. Mass production might make things like producing the fuel cells cheaper however producing the actual hydrogen will always remain far more inefficient then storing power in batteries.
Personally I also can't see the appeal in still having to go to a fuel station to refill when I can just plug in at home
Plugging in at home seems to be a really good idea and would please just about everybody.--However the main drawback would be having all those power requirements happen at the same time.--The underground cables would probably get very hot.--Overhead cables carrying so much more power would be, perhaps, the only short term answer.--
Also so much cheaper to install and maintain.--( Be a bit unsightly though.-- )
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Old 8th November 2021, 11:39   #16
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Personally I also can't see the appeal in still having to go to a fuel station to refill when I can just plug in at home

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Plugging in at home seems to be a really good idea and would please just about everybody.....
What about the, I guess, millions, of folks who can't because of the type of house they live in such as no off-road parking?
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Old 8th November 2021, 13:49   #17
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Or if you go further afield and you need to recharge. On the way back from Cornwall this year there were people quieing for electricity at the motorway services, once hooked up they would still need to sit there for an hour. Potentially you could be sat there for several hours. I stopped for fuel, took a comfort break and was on my way in under 20 mins.
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Old 8th November 2021, 16:08   #18
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Dont forget about the changing attitudes of the people too.

I personally cannot be bothered looking up the ins and outs of my dads tmps system, but thankfully the handbook had it marked out step by step. If it hadn't, I may have quickly looked for it online, but if it was not obvious, he would have had to.go.to a dealer. I have forgotten how it is done already. I have no interest.

My14 year old nephew has no interest in car, and most of his friends dont either. They are not even interested in the tech within. They are appliances to them.

Add to that, there is the changing attitude with transport. As public transport improves, and as costs rise for more essentials things in life, a roof, food etc. Less and less people will have a car of their own. Perhaps reverting back to.how it was in the 50s and 60s, hiring a car for a day or two for a pleasure day out (ha, they say we are moving forward, maybe we had to move back to see we were already ahead?).

With that there will be less people involved in caring for a 'classic' ev. So classics will be even more thin on the ground than they are now.

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Old 8th November 2021, 22:43   #19
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My14 year old nephew has no interest in car, and most of his friends dont either. They are not even interested in the tech within. They are appliances to them.
Foe the next generation, there is nothing to find interest in. Modern cars are very detached from what got most of us interested in cars in the first place. There is now little need to interact with your car. You get in, press a button, steer and that's pretty much it. Modern cars don't need - and don't enable - DIY intervention. You no longer need to be a motorist, just a user. Cars are now just transportation devices. The nuances have been lost as cars have evolved to detach and isolate their occupants from the goings-on under the bonnet and beneath the wheels, so much so that the experience is now synthetically enhanced with piped engine soundtracks, artificially weighty steering and pop/bang engine maps. It's pretty sad really but at least primes us for the future of electric automated mobility devices.
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Old 8th November 2021, 23:41   #20
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Foe the next generation, there is nothing to find interest in. Modern cars are very detached from what got most of us interested in cars in the first place. There is now little need to interact with your car. You get in, press a button, steer and that's pretty much it. Modern cars don't need - and don't enable - DIY intervention. You no longer need to be a motorist, just a user. Cars are now just transportation devices. The nuances have been lost as cars have evolved to detach and isolate their occupants from the goings-on under the bonnet and beneath the wheels, so much so that the experience is now synthetically enhanced with piped engine soundtracks, artificially weighty steering and pop/bang engine maps. It's pretty sad really but at least primes us for the future of electric automated mobility devices.
ahh, but did 'your' previous generation not say something similar about 'your' generation of cars? As time and reliability move on there is less necessity to work on cars. How many kids even change a wheel after a puncture? from what a recovery driver told me, not many, male and female - mainly down to the £99 per month deals, with RAC cover, making the yoof ignorant and lazy. Go back 40 years, where the 40-60 year old driver reminisces on greasing a trunnion, or gapping the valves every so often. For me, it was gapping the points, cleaning out and inspecting the distributor cap, changing the spark plugs every service (what happened to 6-12,000 mile spark plug changes?).

As tech moves on, it will come down to electronic and LED customising, screen displays etc (this has already started). Or perhaps hacking or illicitly activating the various electronic features that you pay for remotely - it is this that will keep the youth interested. And this all depends if people actually buy cars in the future rather than leasing or hiring them (which is also killing the interest).

I think you hit it on the head with the term 'being a user'. Bit like a computer game?
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