PAGID Comparision

[Yella Fella]

There was a very informative thread by ecp where PAGID was compaired to MINTEX. Where has it gone?

[Yella Fella]

Please ignore my last post, I found the thread in the members section.

[Jules]

We prefer the Pagid brand.
Nice silver coating on the disc centres make them look good for up to 2 years.

Mintex pads blacken the wheels much quicker than OEM or Pagid pads.

[Vossy]

I know this is an old thread and previously I have praised Pagid, I had them fitted all round on my previous car and the coatings were perfect, the brakes were good and low dust.
I fitted Pagid all round on my ZT about 10 months ago, they are rusted up now and I had a vibration under braking on the front, they had only done 3000 miles.
I have now changed the whole set for Delphi, I know they are not coated but what a difference in braking.
I don't know what has happened to Pagid but a friend of mine had his Jaguar done at the same time as mine, his as exactly the same now, rusting very quick.
Maybe Conti are cutting back on the expensive coating and using a thinner layer, I don't know but these are my personal views and what has happened to me.

[Jules]

Thank you for posting this!!!!

It matters not that it's an old thread.
We purchased 10 sets of front discs from ECP in 2014.

8 of them came back to us for warranty claims.......brake pedal wobble.
I suspect the other 2 also failed but owners had either sold them on or were too far away to travel all the way back here to have them replaced under warranty.

I rang ECP about this and they said there is a 2 warranty on them but they had not had ANY other bad reports about PAGID.

I don't believe them for one minute so I'm going to initiate a case with Trading Standards.
If ECP don't admit there's a problem there is going to be legal action because this is a safety issue.

Similar failures are all over the Facebook groups and elsewhere on the web so this thread will simply strengthen the case.

Keep this thread alive please because we are sick of replacing substandard parts at our expense.

[oldcarguy]

I had this problem a year or two back, I personally wouldn't buy Pagid again, I'm using a mixture of Unipart pads and Brembo discs at the moment and all is good.

[Jules]

Originally Posted by oldcarguy

I had this problem a year or two back, I personally wouldn't buy Pagid again, I'm using a mixture of Unipart pads and Brembo discs at the moment and all is good.

Granted but did you complain and return them to Pagid?
If you didn't they will carry on producing sub standard parts !!

[EuroCarParts]

Hi guys!

Quite a few posts on this, so i thought we'd jump in to help offer advice, and correct some points.

Firstly, i'm really sorry to hear you've had problems you your discs - We have excellent reputation with the Pagid range over the past 5 years and have sold millions of discs without fault, which is why we are now able to offer the 24/24 warranty when fitted with Pagid Pads.

Regarding the coatings, its worth noting that the coating thickness is controlled with strict tolerances and will be same specification across all part numbers. This is one of the many requirements when supplying OE quality products. There are other manufacturers who may actually ignore these guidelines and 'over coat' discs which can lead to a range of other issues - . The coating is designed to slow down and minimise corrosion. Unfortunately the coating cannot remain indefinitely on the friction area and so it is not possible to completely avoid the possibility of corrosion, which will happen when the bare metal is exposed to the elements (but will wear away soon after driving) It is also worth noting that highly acidic wheel cleaners can cause issues with coatings becoming corroded.

I then spoke to the Braking team, who are a group of experts dedicated to our braking range who have given some feedback
The vibration effect after 3,000 miles would also suggest that the hubs have not been thoroughly cleaned. This is an essential part of a brake change as failing to clean the hubs will allow a build-up of corrosion between the disc and the hub. Over time, this gets worse and causes the discs to have "High Spots" on the discs and this is the vibration sensation experienced. There is a misinterpretation of "Warped" discs - as the discs are manufactured from cast iron, to warp discs would require temperatures of 600 degrees centigrade. An alpine decent or track days are the only time you would experience temperatures of this magnitude.

By fitting the Delphi discs, this would cure the problem temporarily but will return after another 3,000 if the hubs have still not be cleaned. Please note that as we don't have the discs to inspect, this is based upon an assumption. The customer will be able to see rust marks on the inside of the top hat that will show this problem. If there was a manufacturing defect, this would be evident instantly.

Another problem could also be the hub - a run out check can be conducted with a run out gauge prior to sending the vehicle away after the discs have been changed.

The above isn't a blame game, its simply the potential causes based on the years of experience the team have.

Considering the large volume of brakes we sell to customers and garages every day, our braking team personally inspect any returns like this and are able to normally identify the route cause - As we have done with members before we would be happy to arrange an inspection of these parts to find the root cause.


Also, we just wanted to clear something up, there was a mention of Conti in the posts above - Conti / ATE are nothing to do with Pagid Brakes, although we do stock their products, the Pagid range is supplied exclusively via EuroCarParts as supported by TMD Friction. (one of the worlds largest friction manufacturers)


I hope that helps,


Patrick

[Jules]

Wow Thanks for this Patrick for a quick reply!
However your comments don't really explain the multiple failure claims I've had in last 12 months.

First of all though I doubt whether it is incorrect fitting in many of these failure cases.

I have fitted 100's of discs to Rover 75's since 2005 and the first job we do is thoroughly clean the hub face almost to a mirror finish!

Also I can report the runout in all my complaint cases has been within specified tolerance.

My theory with these faulty discs is that the quality of the metal isn't consistant radially.

Measured with a micrometer the thickness of the disc varies in patches around the circumference.

In other words they are wearing unevenly hence the pedal wobble.

We thought at first maybe the pads we were using were incompatible but we tried:

Mintex Pagid Delphi and OEM ATE pads and all to no avail. Many PAGID discs have failed with same symptoms.

I am very reluctant to accept replacement PAGID discs until I get some sort of admission that there may have been a "batch problem"

I still have the original boxes.
Also there are numbers stamped on the disc edge..........do these mean anything and can the batch be traced?

At the moment I have lost total faith in the product.

Patrick
Will you be able to arrange something and I'm sure we all await your further comments?

I have 5 pairs of wobbly discs here from 5 different cars (less than 3000 miles covered in each case)

Please advise?

Jules

[EuroCarParts]

Hi Jules,

We'd love to have the discs back for inspection - To be honest, i'm not aware of any prior conversations you may have had, but if these failed in 2014 i would have expected these to be returned under warranty and then they would have made their way to our product team for inspection within a few weeks - If you don't mind, can you drop me the details on an email to [email protected] with the original invoice numbers and i'll be in contact to uplift them.

As far as i remember (i remember the day the first Pagid delivery turned up in 2010ish) there has never been a batch issue with any of our brake discs, so i'm sure the team can get to the bottom of this.

Cheers!

Patrick