Numpties in local government.

[VVC-Geeza]

Originally Posted by FredSpencer

Dunno, I don't think it is law yet about local councils publishing a breakdown of expenditure on this scale as a matter of course, or even that it is going to be, but I stand to be corrected.

Well if it isn't currently law it should be,we've seen first hand what politicians got up to with PUBLIC money before they were brought to account.

[StuBlake13]

Good grief, the only reason private sector workers begrudge public sector employees is because they suffer envy and jealousy and are bitter. If the coin was flipped and it was you in their situation you'd feel exactly the same.

Lets be honest if the government were serious about saving money there are far better ways of doing it. I mean take the website for instance, you want to know the reason it cost so much? Its all down to how the private firm contracted to do the job work, as in just like car repair centres, they charge the public one figure and the insurance firms another. This is what private firms do to local councils. Like it or not that figure quoted is either the the cheapest they could get because all private firms love nothing more than to milk public coffers or the firm used is a relation or has the head of the council as a director.

The greedy vitriol most of the private sector workers are vomiting toward their public sector working brethren would be aimed better at the great unclean swathes of dole swallowing scum pond life who have never worked or contributed a days work in their lives. Cut their umbilical to the state and nobody has to suffer. Then there are the further greedy leeches known as shareholders who are to blame for your poor pay and conditions and whose dividends would be better halved with money from them reinvested in the company and your own pensions pots. Any excuse to pick on anyone you perceive to be better off than you. What you all need to do is keep calm and get your facts straight as the only reason you get these inflated average wage and pensions figure is because of the local government leaderships and their 6 figure+ salaries and them putting friends into similar high paid non jobs. The guys and girls that provide the frontline services are on a paupers wage and have to suffer and struggle most of their lives to acheive anything like whats quoted in the papers.

[RoryRover]

Its 12:40 and the only reason I am able to post this is because for the first time in my life I am on strike.

I finally decided to strike to try and get people to recognise how important the final salary pension scheme is and because I passionately believe all those who work hard throughout thier life deserve a fair pension at the end of it. And to me that includes everyone in the private sector as well.

Once the "markets" finally get rid of final salary schemes everyones only option will be to hand over thier savings to the licenced bandits at the top of the financial services industry (for whom your pounds mean Porches and for whom a good days work means finding a new way to take extra charges from your money). The end result is that no one will get a fair pension when they retire, and although we will all be in the same boat - and is it really a boat you want to be in?

The final result of what is happening now in both public and private sector is that we will all be retiring to a life of relative poverty and dependence on the state - which is precicely what most of us are working so hard to try and avoid.

But of course we can't afford it - but who says so - those with a vested interest in makeing sure we can't. Like the "markets" who really run this Country and the Footsie 100 Chief Execs (average salary 3.5 mill) that who. Money is no object to these people personally - they just want to make sure they have it and you don't.

A few weeks ago in another round of "Qualitive easing" the Govenment gave the banks another 75 Billion pounds. Not you, not the struggling small businesses who could be the powerhouse to get us out of this recession - the banks. And did they immediately rush out to invest in bussinesses - no - because apparently they now need to have thier loans guarenteed (despite the fact they were given our money in the first place) which means all of us have to dig in our pockets yet again.

I dont really expect much to happen as a result of this strike. My voice is pathetically small against those who pull the strings and rejoice in the opportunity to set public sector against private sector yet again. And yet I felt I had to do something.

I just hope its not too late for all of us.

[rovexCDTi]

Originally Posted by StuBlake13

Good grief, the only reason private sector workers begrudge public sector employees is because they suffer envy and jealousy and are bitter. If the coin was flipped and it was you in their situation you'd feel exactly the same.

Lets be honest if the government were serious about saving money there are far better ways of doing it. I mean take the website for instance, you want to know the reason it cost so much? Its all down to how the private firm contracted to do the job work, as in just like car repair centres, they charge the public one figure and the insurance firms another. This is what private firms do to local councils. Like it or not that figure quoted is either the the cheapest they could get because all private firms love nothing more than to milk public coffers or the firm used is a relation or has the head of the council as a director.

The greedy vitriol most of the private sector workers are vomiting toward their public sector working brethren would be aimed better at the great unclean swathes of dole swallowing scum pond life who have never worked or contributed a days work in their lives. Cut their umbilical to the state and nobody has to suffer. Then there are the further greedy leeches known as shareholders who are to blame for your poor pay and conditions and whose dividends would be better halved with money from them reinvested in the company and your own pensions pots. Any excuse to pick on anyone you perceive to be better off than you. What you all need to do is keep calm and get your facts straight as the only reason you get these inflated average wage and pensions figure is because of the local government leaderships and their 6 figure+ salaries and them putting friends into similar high paid non jobs. The guys and girls that provide the frontline services are on a paupers wage and have to suffer and struggle most of their lives to acheive anything like whats quoted in the papers.

Its not jealous its simple market forces. The Private sector has to compete, the public sector does not. Its wasteful and expensive, yet seems to provide an ever worsening service.

I agree everyone deserves a final salary pension, but we cant afford it. I also agree that if i had the package they do i would be very keen to keep hold of it, and would feel aggrieved about it being reduced, but thems the breaks in an economic climate like this. The public sector has been cosseted from the reality of it far to much.
When i changed jobs the pay rise and extras i got, which are slightly less than a public sector position, made me think all my Christmases came at once.

[baughurst]

Originally Posted by FredSpencer

Simple, the well tried, "They get it so we want it too," argument. It won't be easy but if it's something you hope for it will be the only way. It will take a lot of determination, a breakdown of the cosy relationship between all flavours of politicians and big business and, no doubt, quite a period of time.

Sorry mate, it just isn't going to work. There are something like 6m public and more than 20m private sector workers. To think that what the public sector does will be reflected in the private is just wishful thinking if not complete fantasy.

[baughurst]

Out of interest, how many of you are in a non-contributory pension scheme and how many in a contributory one?

Mine, which I am currently drawing, was a contributory scheme. With top-ups (voluntary) it cost me a fair bit of cash. Worth it in the end but it wasn't free and it wasn't cheap.

And, yes it has now been closed by my former employer as it was too expensive for them to keep offering to new employees.

[StuBlake13]

Originally Posted by rovexCDTi

Its not jealous its simple market forces. The Private sector has to compete, the public sector does not. Its wasteful and expensive, yet seems to provide an ever worsening service.

I agree everyone deserves a final salary pension, but we cant afford it. I also agree that if i had the package they do i would be very keen to keep hold of it, and would feel aggrieved about it being reduced, but thems the breaks in an economic climate like this. The public sector has been cosseted from the reality of it far to much.
When i changed jobs the pay rise and extras i got, which are slightly less than a public sector position, made me think all my Christmases came at once.

You didn't bother to address the fact that if we stopped funding wasters and let market forces deal with them in the dog eat dog world you seem so happy with then we wouldn't be needing to attack hard working peoples pensions. Truth is that the government always make the easy choice to just keep stealing working peoples pensions (that is exactly what it is by the way legalised wholesale theft). Rather than do the right thing and make the hard choice to say to these scum that if you don't work and pay your way you get nothing, because too many do gooders start wailing "Think of the Children!" etc blah blah blah and make excuses for these people. If it weren't for those people in the private sector lacking a sturdier back bone and being so quick to take up a corrupt elitist governments fight to ruin the working classes and fighting alongside the public sector, every worker standing together then they wouldn't get away with it.

I'm all for cuts in times of austerity so long money is cut from the right places and in the right order. I'm sorry but nobody with any ounce of common sense and moral fibre can justify what this government are doing until the lazy workshy elements of society are made to suffer first. Forget making excuses for them, they made their choices in life and with every choice you should be made to accept responsibility for yourself and stop blaming other people.

This is why I say its the green eyed monster because there is no perspective in one worker attacking another before attacking the welfare scroungers. Until the Government does that lay off the honest hard working productive members of society. The money is there to give them what they want, they just don't want to put the effort into finding it.

And now your right what works in the public sector won't work for those in the private but my argument still stands if your that unhappy with what your getting in the private sector and really think the grass is greener in the public sector pack your current job in and find one in the public sector, put up or shut up.

Originally Posted by baughurst

Out of interest, how many of you are in a non-contributory pension scheme and how many in a contributory one?

Mine, which I am currently drawing, was a contributory scheme. With top-ups (voluntary) it cost me a fair bit of cash. Worth it in the end but it wasn't free and it wasn't cheap.

And, yes it has now been closed by my former employer as it was too expensive for them to keep offering to new employees.

My employer contributes to a final salary pension scheme however I also put maximum contributions I can under BRASS voluntarily topping it up myself.

[FredSpencer]

Just got back from my day of ruining the country for all you private sector workers. How did it go?

Well, I started on the picket line at 7 a.m. where I work (Highways department) to find there were approx 15 vehicles in the car park. That's not normal so presumably all those people weren't even prepared to look us in the face. I stayed there till 9.30 during which time quite a few vehicles came in. Most drivers were prepared to listen to our request that they don't cross the picket line but only one didn't. Of those that did many were privately employed by contractors who have contracts with the council. Rather hearteningly all who expressed any comment thought we were doing the right thing and not one made any negative comment at all. I rather suspect that the drivers of the three cars which sped through without stopping might not have looked on us too favourably though.

Anyway, of those people directly employed by the Council quite a number were low paid part-time staff who can't manage as it is. A significant other group are trainee engineers. They get all their training paid for by the Council (taxpayers) then usually jump ship to the private sector so have nothing to lose. Not many at management level were in work, although the big boss was, but she retires very soon on a very nice bosses pension, so draw your own inferences there.

Anyway, everything was all nice and civilized and friendly. We were heartened by the number of people who hadn't gone to work but in total the car park was close to half full so I wouldn't claim anything like a total success (for comparision, the car park is normally completely full and some people have to park outside). It was, however, an eye opener to me to find out how many people who worked in the place didn't actually work for the Council as I'd assumed everyone did. Seems we're being privatized bit by bit.

At 10 o'clock I moved on to the rally in preparation for the march into the city centre. We listened to some stirring speeches and set off at 11 making our way into town in very nice sunny weather. For anyone that knows it we went from Woodhouse Moor to Victoria Square in Leeds and there were very nice police people all the way who stopped traffic and closed roads so we could get there unhindered. It was very heartening to hear all the shouts of support we got and see the waves from all the motorists that were inconvenienced. It sort of gave the lie to the earlier statement from someone that everyone is against us. I really do have to say this has not been my experience at all. Not one person said anything against us or made any sort of gesture that could have been construed as anti what we were doing (something very easy to do if you're sat in a car while thousands of people you have no sympathy with walk past).

We then had some more speeches by different people from the Union movement. A very interesting bit of information that was given out is that Unilever employees (private sector) have voted to go on strike over their pensions (I'll be interested to see what the response is to that from the public sector knockers).

From everything said at the rally it now seems clear that our industrial action is going to continue, probably with another day in January, and is about more than just pensions. I wouldn't suggest for a moment that we are facing a 'winter of discontent', but it clearly isn't over by a long, long way.

It is my firm conviction that if the government get away with all the stuff they are planning for the public sector then the people of our country are in for a really bad future. The writing is on the wall for the vast majority of people in this country. It's all doom and gloom, I tell you, doom and gloom.

Well, that's enough from me so I'll leave it on that cheery note.

[baughurst]

Originally Posted by StuBlake13

My employer contributes to a final salary pension scheme however I also put maximum contributions I can under BRASS voluntarily topping it up myself.

So you're paying AVCs. On a contributory or non-contributory pension?

[FredSpencer]

Originally Posted by baughurst

Out of interest, how many of you are in a non-contributory pension scheme and how many in a contributory one?

I'm not in the pension scheme, although I do have a frozen private pension. I can, however, tell you the local authority scheme is a contributory one.