Metal Thermostat Installed - Page 4

kaiser · 27th January 2011, 14:31

During winter temperatures you will always have a slower warm up, that is a direct result of the surrounding temperature and the use of heat from the heater unit.
The stat will not start influencing anything before it starts opening at about 80 degrees.

You can report factually by using the instrument pack to read temperatures.

David3807 · 27th January 2011, 15:37

Hi Kaiser and thanks for reply.

Appreciate that winter warm up will always be longer but my Tourer (with your improved housing and 80c stat) only reaches about 88c in about 4 miles and tends to stick there for most of the journey which is only about 7 miles.

My saloon on the other hand (standard MGR stat I think 88c or thereabouts) reaches 88 in about two miles and continues to 94/95 by about 3 miles.

I was wondering if a higher rated stat in the tourer (88c ? ) would get to the working temp a bit quicker ? And if a standard MGR stat would fit and work with your housing.

Both cars are 2.5 KV6 Autos and I tend not to use Air Con or econ heating until working temp reached.

kaiser · 27th January 2011, 18:25

The temperature will not be reached any quicker with a higher temperature stat.
The stat does no work (in order to affect the temperature) before it reaches its set temperature, when it starts to open.
If your car runs at 88 degrees, this is quite normal and will not use any more petrol than a car running at say 94 degrees. The difference you see is within the possible errors of the sensors and instruments, although it is quite possible that the one could run 5 degrees higher than the other.

I can assure you that at these temperatures there is no difference in petrol consumption. That only comes in if you run cold (or if you sensor says that the engine is cold), because the computer will overfuel in order to enrich the mixture, thinking the engine is starting cold. (choke)

A big user of heat is your heater, which can receive about 15% of maximum allowed flow in the system. If the heater is more efficient in the one car, that could perhaps explain some of the difference you claim to see.

If you want to make accurate comparisons you should switch both heaters off and then compare. This, by the way, has been done a number of times, and usually people find that there might be a difference, but usually small and much smaller than they anticipated.

Now I don't know who you are from your user name, and thus not which thermostat you have. If it has just a serial number, then it has a by-pass about 2% of max flow, to minimize vapour lock and thermal shock. If you have a serial number followed by an "s", you have about 1% bypass, and if an "e" none.

Whichever one you have, the main aim of these units is to protect your engine, and I think you will find that the unit does that.

As for the original thermostat unit, no, it will not fit. As for the temperature of the original stat, I seem to remember that I took out one rated at 82 degrees from my car originally, but this is memory.

There is nothing wrong running at the temperatures you are experiencing.
My own experience is something like this
A/C on 80 to 90 degrees fairly constant and little affected by outside temperatures.
No A/c very dependent on outside temperature and load, but from 85 to over 100, sometimes up to bout 110 degrees, usually after a fast run and slowing down in traffic, with outside of about 30 to 35.

My own warm up is usually I guess about 2km for standard gauge to go to medium, followed by the temperature going to 80 in the outgoing cooling pipe (where my second gauge is located) about half a kilometer later. Ambient about 20 degrees.

Jules · 27th January 2011, 21:08

Kaiser, you're not listening to us!!!
At least five of your housings are running cold that I have fitted for members.

No1
They don't need such a big hole you are drilling in them.
1mm max not 4-5mm

No2
The O rings you supply are too large by about 1mm.
A few members have had leaks due to "nipped" seals.
I use OEM seals with less risk of "nipping" during insertion.
(with addition of silicone lubricant)

We have proved the large hole is causing the cool running, plus the stats you are fitting are too cool.
Ideally you need to find a stat like the OEM one with a Ball valve?
That's the reason I have not ordered any more from you for the last 8 months.
The last 2 Kaiser installs we carried out, I split the housings and put the OLD OEM stat inside.
Both worked a treat with Identical figures to what the owners were used to!

Your product would be fantastic with the above 2 problems sorted.
20deg C is a very hot day here in UK.
It is ZERO Centigrade here as we speak, we need the extra heat of my recommendations to keep our KV6's warmer

Hope this doesn't upset you but only trying to help!!

Mr Edd · 28th January 2011, 02:33

Not wishing to heap coals on the fire here...

Do owners in Oz who have had the metal thermostat fitted notice an increase in fuel consumption? Just wondering regarding ambient temperatures.

Is a thermostat available in the UK that can be used? The beauty of these metal ones is they can be opened to replace the thermostat if necessary. Could be regarded as a service item sort of thing?

Just a layman wondering out loud???

Edd

kaiser · 28th January 2011, 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

Kaiser, you're not listening to us!!!
At least five of your housings are running cold that I have fitted for members.

No1
They don't need such a big hole you are drilling in them.
1mm max not 4-5mm

No2
The O rings you supply are too large by about 1mm.
A few members have had leaks due to "nipped" seals.
I use OEM seals with less risk of "nipping" during insertion.
(with addition of silicone lubricant)

We have proved the large hole is causing the cool running, plus the stats you are fitting are too cool.
Ideally you need to find a stat like the OEM one with a Ball valve?
That's the reason I have not ordered any more from you for the last 8 months.
The last 2 Kaiser installs we carried out, I split the housings and put the OLD OEM stat inside.
Both worked a treat with Identical figures to what the owners were used to!

Your product would be fantastic with the above 2 problems sorted.
20deg C is a very hot day here in UK.
It is ZERO Centigrade here as we speak, we need the extra heat of my recommendations to keep our KV6's warmer

Hope this doesn't upset you but only trying to help!!

Jules, you should know that the thermostats are available with no by-pass. I supplied you one foc! The report you (repeatedly) promised on that unit was never done! Am I to take it that this is it??

The problems, as you see them, are easily solved. Ask for a model "e" or an "s", and fit whatever O-rings you feel comfortable about.

As for the engine running too cool. 88 degrees running is not "too cool", that is plainly nonsense.

David3807 · 28th January 2011, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Edd

Just a layman wondering out loud???

Edd

Just like me then

To be fair (and applying laymans logic

) I think its the shortish journies I mostly do which is highlighting the increased petrol consumption ie standard MGR stat 2/3 miles to working temp out of total trip 6/7 miles against 4/5 miles out of 6/7 with Kaisers. I do some weekend trips of 60 plus miles and the MPG on those is much the same between the two cars before and after fitting Kaisers stat to the tourer.

If its 2/3 or 4/5 miles to working temp doesnt really make a lot of difference in a total of 60 miles does it.

Jules · 28th January 2011, 08:34

Re the drilled hole in the stat which Kaiser insists doesn't make a difference;
We're all too aware that any bypass hole simulates a partially open stat and does indeed lengthen the warmup times and reduces running temp by a couple of degrees.

Kaiser, have you read the "proof of the pudding" on the famous Diesel Stat thread here
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...8&goto=newpost

We rest our case!

Jules · 28th January 2011, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaiser

Jules, you should know that the thermostats are available with no by-pass. I supplied you one foc! The report you (repeatedly) promised on that unit was never done! Am I to take it that this is it??

The problems, as you see them, are easily solved. Ask for a model "e" or an "s", and fit whatever O-rings you feel comfortable about.

As for the engine running too cool. 88 degrees running is not "too cool", that is plainly nonsense.

Thanks for the reply

Our UK members want the their KV6's to run at the same temp as the OEM
ie
hotter than 88C typically 92 ish.

I apologise for the lack of feedback (stress & workload!!) with the undrilled one you supplied, but the customer concerned never got back to me ........so I'll never know on that one.

It's still a mystery as to the source of the OEM stat inserts as far as I know
as that would make the Metal housing mod 100% perfect.

kaiser · 28th January 2011, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

Thanks for the reply

Our UK members want the their KV6's to run at the same temp as the OEM
ie
hotter than 88C typically 92 ish.

I apologise for the lack of feedback (stress & workload!!) with the undrilled one you supplied, but the customer concerned never got back to me ........so I'll never know on that one.

It's still a mystery as to the source of the OEM stat inserts as far as I know
as that would make the Metal housing mod 100% perfect.

Jules, relax! If I don't get feedback, I take it that things are fine.
If you worry about 4 degrees, get the one without the bypass, it is available.
But don't think I don't listen, I do.! if people squeak!!

As you might know, it is a case of mind over matter. You don't matter, and I don't mind!

27th January 2011, 18:25	#33
kaiser This is my second home 75 Tourer 2.5 Auto, 1.8T, 75V8ZT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Johannesburg ZA Posts: 6,200 Thanks: 1 Thanked 859 Times in 613 Posts	The temperature will not be reached any quicker with a higher temperature stat. The stat does no work (in order to affect the temperature) before it reaches its set temperature, when it starts to open. If your car runs at 88 degrees, this is quite normal and will not use any more petrol than a car running at say 94 degrees. The difference you see is within the possible errors of the sensors and instruments, although it is quite possible that the one could run 5 degrees higher than the other. I can assure you that at these temperatures there is no difference in petrol consumption. That only comes in if you run cold (or if you sensor says that the engine is cold), because the computer will overfuel in order to enrich the mixture, thinking the engine is starting cold. (choke) A big user of heat is your heater, which can receive about 15% of maximum allowed flow in the system. If the heater is more efficient in the one car, that could perhaps explain some of the difference you claim to see. If you want to make accurate comparisons you should switch both heaters off and then compare. This, by the way, has been done a number of times, and usually people find that there might be a difference, but usually small and much smaller than they anticipated. Now I don't know who you are from your user name, and thus not which thermostat you have. If it has just a serial number, then it has a by-pass about 2% of max flow, to minimize vapour lock and thermal shock. If you have a serial number followed by an "s", you have about 1% bypass, and if an "e" none. Whichever one you have, the main aim of these units is to protect your engine, and I think you will find that the unit does that. As for the original thermostat unit, no, it will not fit. As for the temperature of the original stat, I seem to remember that I took out one rated at 82 degrees from my car originally, but this is memory. There is nothing wrong running at the temperatures you are experiencing. My own experience is something like this A/C on 80 to 90 degrees fairly constant and little affected by outside temperatures. No A/c very dependent on outside temperature and load, but from 85 to over 100, sometimes up to bout 110 degrees, usually after a fast run and slowing down in traffic, with outside of about 30 to 35. My own warm up is usually I guess about 2km for standard gauge to go to medium, followed by the temperature going to 80 in the outgoing cooling pipe (where my second gauge is located) about half a kilometer later. Ambient about 20 degrees. Last edited by kaiser; 27th January 2011 at 18:29..

27th January 2011, 21:08	#34
Jules This is my second home ZT 260 SE Twilight and 10 other 75 ZT's :O Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Conwy NORTH WALES Posts: 11,094 Thanks: 512 Thanked 1,116 Times in 763 Posts	Jules recommendations ~ KV6 thermostat Kaiser, you're not listening to us!!! At least five of your housings are running cold that I have fitted for members. No1 They don't need such a big hole you are drilling in them. 1mm max not 4-5mm No2 The O rings you supply are too large by about 1mm. A few members have had leaks due to "nipped" seals. I use OEM seals with less risk of "nipping" during insertion. (with addition of silicone lubricant) We have proved the large hole is causing the cool running, plus the stats you are fitting are too cool. Ideally you need to find a stat like the OEM one with a Ball valve? That's the reason I have not ordered any more from you for the last 8 months. The last 2 Kaiser installs we carried out, I split the housings and put the OLD OEM stat inside. Both worked a treat with Identical figures to what the owners were used to! Your product would be fantastic with the above 2 problems sorted. 20deg C is a very hot day here in UK. It is ZERO Centigrade here as we speak, we need the extra heat of my recommendations to keep our KV6's warmer Hope this doesn't upset you but only trying to help!! __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Newbies do now!! 1. Plenum drains..all 3 or 4 year dependent 2. Cooling fan..All speeds functioning 3. Bonnet cable divider block

28th January 2011, 02:33	#35
Mr Edd From the Horses Mouth 2012 Honda Oddessay and 1996 Ford Ranger Truck (Splash) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fort Myers, Florida Posts: 1,045 Thanks: 0 Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts	Not wishing to heap coals on the fire here... Do owners in Oz who have had the metal thermostat fitted notice an increase in fuel consumption? Just wondering regarding ambient temperatures. Is a thermostat available in the UK that can be used? The beauty of these metal ones is they can be opened to replace the thermostat if necessary. Could be regarded as a service item sort of thing? Just a layman wondering out loud??? Edd __________________ I'd be dyslexic if I could spell ti.

28th January 2011, 08:34	#38
Jules This is my second home ZT 260 SE Twilight and 10 other 75 ZT's :O Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Conwy NORTH WALES Posts: 11,094 Thanks: 512 Thanked 1,116 Times in 763 Posts	Re the drilled hole in the stat which Kaiser insists doesn't make a difference; We're all too aware that any bypass hole simulates a partially open stat and does indeed lengthen the warmup times and reduces running temp by a couple of degrees. Kaiser, have you read the "proof of the pudding" on the famous Diesel Stat thread here http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...8&goto=newpost We rest our case! __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Newbies do now!! 1. Plenum drains..all 3 or 4 year dependent 2. Cooling fan..All speeds functioning 3. Bonnet cable divider block

27th January 2011, 14:31	#31
kaiser This is my second home 75 Tourer 2.5 Auto, 1.8T, 75V8ZT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Johannesburg ZA Posts: 6,200 Thanks: 1 Thanked 859 Times in 613 Posts	During winter temperatures you will always have a slower warm up, that is a direct result of the surrounding temperature and the use of heat from the heater unit. The stat will not start influencing anything before it starts opening at about 80 degrees. You can report factually by using the instrument pack to read temperatures.

27th January 2011, 15:37	#32
David3807 Posted a thing or two 2002 R75 Conn SE 2.5l Auto Tourer, 2001 R75 Conn SE 2.5 Auto Saloon Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gravesend Posts: 1,897 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Hi Kaiser and thanks for reply. Appreciate that winter warm up will always be longer but my Tourer (with your improved housing and 80c stat) only reaches about 88c in about 4 miles and tends to stick there for most of the journey which is only about 7 miles. My saloon on the other hand (standard MGR stat I think 88c or thereabouts) reaches 88 in about two miles and continues to 94/95 by about 3 miles. I was wondering if a higher rated stat in the tourer (88c ? ) would get to the working temp a bit quicker ? And if a standard MGR stat would fit and work with your housing. Both cars are 2.5 KV6 Autos and I tend not to use Air Con or econ heating until working temp reached.