Putin, Russia and the West

[xsport]

Originally Posted by Borg Warner

The saying that quantity has a quality all of its own comes to mind.

ah yes , but you must not send arms to ukrain must you .... that not fair says moscow. come to think of it, was it not russia that invaded poland to steel half of their eastern terratory only months before hitler made his move ? . stalin signed a pact with hitler over that deal , if i recall. so russia had its eyes on land grabs even then. ... nothing changes does it.

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by xsport

ah yes , but you must not send arms to ukrain must you .... that not fair says moscow. come to think of it, was it not russia that invaded poland to steel half of their eastern terratory only months before hitler made his move ? . stalin signed a pact with hitler over that deal , if i recall. so russia had its eyes on land grabs even then. ... nothing changes does it.

The Red Army began operations in eastern Poland a fortnight after the German forces invaded. Perhaps they wanted to make sure it was a given victory and that the Germans would take the lions share of criticism.

Kev

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by macafee2

If the US and Allies had not given the Russians military equipment the Russians would have been over run.

macafee2

Perhaps not defeated as Allies aid would not have been organized before the winter/Russian forces stopped the advances. I think they would have eventually prevailed but taken a few more years to do so. The Russian Armed Forces, once mobilised, are difficult to defeat. I agree with most analysts that Russia was the main pivot for victory with US war production second.

Russia will never change. It has always followed a policy of expansion since it's birth, only the means and deception change.

Kev

[stevestrat]

There are reports that another Russian frigate, The Admiral Makarov, has been hit by a Ukrainian Neptune missile and is on fire. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...rship-26889015

[Borg Warner]

Originally Posted by stevestrat

There are reports that another Russian frigate, The Admiral Makarov, has been hit by a Ukrainian Neptune missile and is on fire. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...rship-26889015

To quote Beatty at Jutland:

"there seems to be something wrong with our B' ships today."

More here anyway:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/russ...ainian-attack/

If true this should be very worrying for the Russian navy. This was a modern ship and should have been able to defend herself.

[MarkS]

I note that there is still no confirmation of the hit on the Admiral Makarov.

And now that most of the civilians have been removed from the Ironworks in Mariupol, I guess we can look forward to there being an 'accident' involving a chemical weapon such as chlorine gas underground, and there to be NO survivors from Mariupol in anticipation of Mondays celebration of 'De-nazification' in Europe.

Or maybe I'm just cynical, after Polonium in London, Novichok in Salisbury, and chlorine in Syria.

[Borg Warner]

It certainly seems odd. Propaganda maybe:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2073007.html

[MarkS]

I'm afraid I don't find it surprising.

The Russians spun a story about the Moskva suffering a fire, subsequent explosion, and sinking in a storm. Unfortunately one thing ruined their story. A Turkish (?) ship responded to the distress call, and somebody onboard recorded the 34 (?) seconds of video from the ship, showing serious damage, and no storm. It ruined their story.

This time, I suspect the Russians have made sure that NO non-russian ship was allowed within CAMERA range of the Admiral Makarov. Any Russian personnel carrying a camera would be shot on sight. No distress calls would have been transmitted in the clear. Anything to avoid ruining whatever story the Russians wish to spin, especially before Monday. Under pain of death. Including anybody on the AM.

Maybe I'm just cynical.

[wraymond]

There's not a lot wrong with cynical. It's just another word for sceptical, or needing some evidence to give some indication of value. Otherwise, it's a reaction to suspected cobblers. That's called unbiased judgement or balance.

[stevestrat]

McDonalds has announced they're bailing out of Russia completely and have begun the process of debranding all their premises and putting them up for sale. Thousands of overweight Russians will be devastated.