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Old 30th April 2021, 08:48   #1
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Cool Bonnie scotland

Hi, just enjoying the morning sun from outside our van in a caravan site in Dumfries and Galaway. Itís a lovely part of the world, the cycling is so good. We only live 35 minutes south of the border in Cumbria so itís no distance to come here. We are seriously going to look at house prices here near the coast with a view to buying in the near future.
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Old 30th April 2021, 09:10   #2
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Hi, just enjoying the morning sun from outside our van in a caravan site in Dumfries and Galaway. Itís a lovely part of the world, the cycling is so good. We only live 35 minutes south of the border in Cumbria so itís no distance to come here. We are seriously going to look at house prices here near the coast with a view to buying in the near future.
Good idea - it will save the need for a passport (hopefully) in the near future.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 08:34   #3
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The thought of Scottish independence horrifies me. I live 35 minutes from the non existent border. I fully understand the argument that Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against its Will, but 5 years of further Brexit type negotiations, arguments where the UK government takes the role of the EU and the Scottish government become the Ďbrexiteersí appalls me.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 09:07   #4
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The thought of Scottish independence horrifies me. I live 35 minutes from the non existent border. I fully understand the argument that Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against its Will, but 5 years of further Brexit type negotiations, arguments where the UK government takes the role of the EU and the Scottish government become the ‘brexiteers’ appalls me.
I totally support Scottish Independence. And I’m about a Scottish as a Cornish Pasty.

I think they should go it alone because it’s been on their agenda for decades. But I don’t think the U.K. becomes the equivalent of the EU - nor do I think Scotland becomes equivalent to the U.K. leaving the EU.

For a start, the money flows the other way.

The U.K. paid the EU a net sum of about £8billion a year (Actual sum was nearly double that but we got nearly half back via EU sponsored projects but the EU dictated where and how this rebated sum was spent.

In contrast, last year - for every £1000 per head raised via taxes for the Government of the Day to spend on running the country - England had £9,296 to spend per head - whilst Scotland received £11,247.

That is a whisker under 21% higher funding for Scotland.

Quite how the SNP will balance the books without the rest of the U.K. (and England in the main) bailing it out will be an interesting thing to watch.

So does England want to keep giving money to Scotland when Scotland’s Public Sector spend was £81billion but its total revenue was just £66billion?

And this shortfall is plugged primarily by English Taxpayers alone.

The Labour MP for Edinburgh South, Ian Murray, recently pointed out that the above £15billion deficit is “the entire annual cost of Scotland’s NHS!”

So for those of us in England paying for all this and all we get in return is Scotland constantly referring to us as the “Olde enemy” - Scottish Independence looks like a very good thing indeed.

I think there is a sure fire way for Scotland to win an independence vote - and that is to let the English vote.

Last edited by Darcydog; 3rd May 2021 at 09:09..
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Old 3rd May 2021, 10:07   #5
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The thought of Scottish independence horrifies me. I live 35 minutes from the non existent border. I fully understand the argument that Scotland has been dragged out of the EU against its Will, but 5 years of further Brexit type negotiations, arguments where the UK government takes the role of the EU and the Scottish government become the Ďbrexiteersí appalls me.
were they, I thought they had voted not to be independent?

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Old 3rd May 2021, 11:53   #6
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If the SNP get in, thereíll be another referendum.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 12:34   #7
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Scot living in Cumbria. Will Scotland under the SNP seek independence, always. Does that mean independence is inevitable, no. I would say there is and will be for sometime a majority against independence, however with FPTP the SNP will be around for a very long time. With that they will try and pick the fight when it best suits the cause. The case will never be based on hard facts just emotions and so long as the likes of the SNP can mask the facts from their supporters the case will be strong, as facts mean nothing to many.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 15:33   #8
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Mr Bountyful, it sounds very much as a rerun of Brexit. A referendum that people vote on depending on their emotional feelings about the general question, rather than it being clearly and fully defined. What worries me is the negotiating period , after a successful referendum and the independence date. I do not wish to live through another 5 years or so similar to what we have just experienced with Brexit. Iíve just drive through the border today, I would hate to see a manned border. A referendum would be very close, either side of 50:50, such votes should really not count until 60% is reach, a clear majority.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 21:38   #9
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Mr Bountyful, it sounds very much as a rerun of Brexit. A referendum that people vote on depending on their emotional feelings about the general question, rather than it being clearly and fully defined. What worries me is the negotiating period , after a successful referendum and the independence date. I do not wish to live through another 5 years or so similar to what we have just experienced with Brexit. I’ve just drive through the border today, I would hate to see a manned border. A referendum would be very close, either side of 50:50, such votes should really not count until 60% is reach, a clear majority.
It may have been emotional for you - but for the majority of those who voted to leave the decision was taken on cold hard facts.

Only those desperate to stay in the EU chose emotion and spin via “project fear” to try to scare people into voting to remain.

As for 60% being a clear majority - that’s a numbers game and 50.1 % is a clear majority!! When you start bending the rules to deny the majority the result thus voted - then that is when democracy fails and revolution is on the cards.

As for project fear - none of the ridiculous claims came true - and like him or loath him Boris was elected with a huge mandate with a “Get Brexit Done” campaign

This was after Cameron and Osbourne stated that a No vote would trigger a year long recession. It didn’t happen

Apparently the economy would shrink by 3-6% and a Leave vote would consequently cost every household £4,300 a year. It didn’t happen.

The reality was that despite this dire warning of immediate impact the U.K. GDP grew 0.7% in the final quarter of 2016.

And if one thing has underlined the benefit of being free to make our own decisions - it has to be the contrasting vaccine rollout. Remainers even said the Government would be guilty of causing deaths by opting out of the EU Vaccination scheme. They simply could not believe that the U.K. on its own could possibly do better. How wrong can you be?

I am sad that my many friends in Europe do not have the same jab access that we in the U.K. do. So does this mean we can point the finger at the EU and say they are guilty of causing deaths by mucking up their jab rollout?

I notice that those who made the false accusations stay very quiet about it now. In fact - even die-hard Europhiles are doubting the bloc's handling of the vaccination drive according to POLITICO.

It goes on to say - “Opinion polls suggest the EU is losing the public relations battle over vaccines among British audiences”

An Ipsos MORI poll showed 67% of Brits believed the U.K. handled the jab program better than the EU.

As for Scottish Independence - as I say, I hope it takes place. I am certain Scotland will thrive one it sorts itself out. The trouble is that there is an emotional tie within the four nations such that each and every time Scotland gets stroppy the U.K. gives it more money and bankrolls its debt.

Just as that silly NHS slogan bus with its £350million gross figure actually got people thinking about how much we paid. “it’s not £350m” shouted remainers!! - “It’s only £156m a week!!”

The virtual universal response from the undecided was “xxxx me! - as much as that? - I had no idea”. The same constant call for Independence for Scotland is making others ask “Why do they want to go when we have bribed them so much to stay?” - then the anger sets in over the opportunity cost to other parts and regions of the U.K. when the actual sums are revealed.

I suspect that once again the canny Scots will look at what they get out of the U.K. and decide to stay. And I think that is a mistake for Scotland as it breeds division and anger on both sides of the border - increasingly in England as Scotland has MPs in the House of Commons, but we have none in Holyrood and we give so much more per capita to Scotland than we receive.

Scotland should be able to stand on its own feet if it wants to. It could do well as an International Finance Centre similar to Dublin. In fact - with the U.K. outside of the EU it would be a true Win-Win for both. Scotland needs to grasp this - trouble is neither Salmond or Sturgeon seem to have sufficient “smarts” to see past the emotion of “the olde enemy pinching North Sea Oil”.

Last edited by Darcydog; 4th May 2021 at 06:21.. Reason: Typo
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Old 4th May 2021, 07:05   #10
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To answer the opening post..
Glad you are enjoying Dumfries and Galloway, it's a beautiful and often overlooked part of Scotland.
As you know many a Brexit thread was closed. I suspect that many a Scottish Independence thread will be closed too.
Let's not make this the first one guys. No politics please.

Last edited by Simondi; 4th May 2021 at 07:09..
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