KV6 bad engine noise & vibration - looks like I may need to take my car to a garage - Page 2

Bolin · 2nd July 2013, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canonite

I had something similar which turned out to be cambelt tensioner which had disintegrated

Alan, was yours the tensioner itself or the tensioner pulley? Did you have any vibration with it?

Canonite · 2nd July 2013, 14:29

It was the pulley part of the tensioner. The idler pulley was fine.
From first hearing the noise to it being scarily loud I'd driven about 10 miles.
Car didn't seem to vibrate, more a horrible rattle. Listen carefully for the sound of bearings rolling about in the race, kind of a light screech. The noise seemed more prominent through the drivers side wheel area.
This is what we found:

When the belt was removed the thing just fell apart, the bearing seal had failed resulting in bearings falling out which in turn allowed movement...etc

As the pulley itself had no bearings keeping it straight it just gouged away at the steel....how the belt didn't snap or slip off I don't know.

As you've mentioned vibration, is it possible it could be the big end bearings? Especially as you've had belt job done? Not sure what to check if its big ends but I hope for your sake it isn't that

KWIL · 2nd July 2013, 14:41

Alan,

Aren't you the lucky one, nearly a full head job, valves, liners etc then?
K

Bolin · 2nd July 2013, 14:54

I had both pulleys replaced when the belts were done so it's extremely unlikely to be the same thing then.... plus mine has been more of a chronic sound.

I changed the oil recently, and didn't notice any metal particals, which I would expect if a bearing was going. I don't think the car has been that neglected in the past for a big end or main bearing to have gone, these engines can do 250,000+

Canonite · 2nd July 2013, 17:12

Yes I was very lucky, even at idle those pulleys are going at some rate.
This was on my launch shortly after I bought it, 13yrs old and 160,000 miles on original belts.
I uploaded some videos and got a better idea from the feedback

Bolin · 2nd July 2013, 17:24

Here is a video clip that shows the bad sound - the clip starts under the car near the oil filter, where the noise is loudest.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1090441...66603860461762

Bolin · 3rd July 2013, 14:22

Here's a recording of the engine being started, and then revved. Oddly the sound gets quieter when the engine is revved, not sure if that is due to the noise itself or the camera phone. I couldn't tell from in the cab as the normal engine note takes over above a certain number of revs. In total I revved it to 4,400rpm but the recording may cut out before then. The black picture is correct, phone was usual way up with the camera to the ground so that the mic was closer to the engine.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1090441...90504328699522

Oddly, when I did rev it to 4,400 rpm the 'check engine' warning came up, never seen it before. When the revs returned to idle it went away after a couple of seconds. I reved it again to about 4,600 rpm and there was no warning. Odd

MrDoodles · 3rd July 2013, 19:19

Well the good news is, IMO that sounds like an ancillary making the noise rather than the motor itself!

I would remove the cam belt cover and have a look at the tensioner, the water pump and I wouldn't even rule out the alternator, as the "Check Engine" light came on!

At least it doesn't sound terminal to me!

Bolin · 3rd July 2013, 22:07

Yes, I'm seriously thinking about stripping it down anyway to have a look, not much else I can do...

Unfortunately to see the tensioner and pulley you need to remove the engine front plate, which is a lot of the work in doing the belts. You can't see it by just taking the cover off (that's by looking at the pic in Haynes anyway). However, having just taken the gearbox off I'm game for anything now, I'm desparate

The noise isn't on the aux belt circuit so that rules out the alternator. Odd about the check engine message, never had that before.

Canonite · 4th July 2013, 07:51

Its not the cat is it?

2nd July 2013, 14:29	#12
Canonite This is my second home BMW 330d Tourer, MG ZT 180 SE XPG, VW Polo 6R 1.2 TDI Bluemotion Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: York Posts: 6,022 Thanks: 363 Thanked 574 Times in 319 Posts	It was the pulley part of the tensioner. The idler pulley was fine. From first hearing the noise to it being scarily loud I'd driven about 10 miles. Car didn't seem to vibrate, more a horrible rattle. Listen carefully for the sound of bearings rolling about in the race, kind of a light screech. The noise seemed more prominent through the drivers side wheel area. This is what we found: When the belt was removed the thing just fell apart, the bearing seal had failed resulting in bearings falling out which in turn allowed movement...etc As the pulley itself had no bearings keeping it straight it just gouged away at the steel....how the belt didn't snap or slip off I don't know. As you've mentioned vibration, is it possible it could be the big end bearings? Especially as you've had belt job done? Not sure what to check if its big ends but I hope for your sake it isn't that

2nd July 2013, 14:41	#13
KWIL Precise Rover 75 Tourer 2.5KV6 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Fleet Posts: 2,954 Thanks: 630 Thanked 617 Times in 480 Posts	Alan, Aren't you the lucky one, nearly a full head job, valves, liners etc then? K

2nd July 2013, 14:54	#14
Bolin This is my second home Rover 75 2.5 V6 Connoisseur SE 4dr manual Wedgewood Blue 2 04-05/06/2001 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: N.E. Hampshire Posts: 4,617 Thanks: 289 Thanked 308 Times in 243 Posts	I had both pulleys replaced when the belts were done so it's extremely unlikely to be the same thing then.... plus mine has been more of a chronic sound. I changed the oil recently, and didn't notice any metal particals, which I would expect if a bearing was going. I don't think the car has been that neglected in the past for a big end or main bearing to have gone, these engines can do 250,000+

2nd July 2013, 17:12	#15
Canonite This is my second home BMW 330d Tourer, MG ZT 180 SE XPG, VW Polo 6R 1.2 TDI Bluemotion Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: York Posts: 6,022 Thanks: 363 Thanked 574 Times in 319 Posts	Yes I was very lucky, even at idle those pulleys are going at some rate. This was on my launch shortly after I bought it, 13yrs old and 160,000 miles on original belts. I uploaded some videos and got a better idea from the feedback

2nd July 2013, 17:24	#16
Bolin This is my second home Rover 75 2.5 V6 Connoisseur SE 4dr manual Wedgewood Blue 2 04-05/06/2001 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: N.E. Hampshire Posts: 4,617 Thanks: 289 Thanked 308 Times in 243 Posts	Here is a video clip that shows the bad sound - the clip starts under the car near the oil filter, where the noise is loudest. https://picasaweb.google.com/1090441...66603860461762

3rd July 2013, 14:22	#17
Bolin This is my second home Rover 75 2.5 V6 Connoisseur SE 4dr manual Wedgewood Blue 2 04-05/06/2001 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: N.E. Hampshire Posts: 4,617 Thanks: 289 Thanked 308 Times in 243 Posts	Here's a recording of the engine being started, and then revved. Oddly the sound gets quieter when the engine is revved, not sure if that is due to the noise itself or the camera phone. I couldn't tell from in the cab as the normal engine note takes over above a certain number of revs. In total I revved it to 4,400rpm but the recording may cut out before then. The black picture is correct, phone was usual way up with the camera to the ground so that the mic was closer to the engine. https://picasaweb.google.com/1090441...90504328699522 Oddly, when I did rev it to 4,400 rpm the 'check engine' warning came up, never seen it before. When the revs returned to idle it went away after a couple of seconds. I reved it again to about 4,600 rpm and there was no warning. Odd

3rd July 2013, 19:19	#18
MrDoodles Banned MG ZT+ V6 190 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Spalding Posts: 13,245 Thanks: 369 Thanked 1,196 Times in 818 Posts	Well the good news is, IMO that sounds like an ancillary making the noise rather than the motor itself! I would remove the cam belt cover and have a look at the tensioner, the water pump and I wouldn't even rule out the alternator, as the "Check Engine" light came on! At least it doesn't sound terminal to me!

3rd July 2013, 22:07	#19
Bolin This is my second home Rover 75 2.5 V6 Connoisseur SE 4dr manual Wedgewood Blue 2 04-05/06/2001 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: N.E. Hampshire Posts: 4,617 Thanks: 289 Thanked 308 Times in 243 Posts	Yes, I'm seriously thinking about stripping it down anyway to have a look, not much else I can do... Unfortunately to see the tensioner and pulley you need to remove the engine front plate, which is a lot of the work in doing the belts. You can't see it by just taking the cover off (that's by looking at the pic in Haynes anyway). However, having just taken the gearbox off I'm game for anything now, I'm desparate The noise isn't on the aux belt circuit so that rules out the alternator. Odd about the check engine message, never had that before.

4th July 2013, 07:51	#20
Canonite This is my second home BMW 330d Tourer, MG ZT 180 SE XPG, VW Polo 6R 1.2 TDI Bluemotion Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: York Posts: 6,022 Thanks: 363 Thanked 574 Times in 319 Posts	Its not the cat is it?