Go Back   The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > Social Forums > Social Forum
Register FAQ Image Gallery Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 18th June 2019, 08:08   #11
topman
This is my second home
 
topman's Avatar
 
MG ZT-T 190

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 5,493
Thanks: 372
Thanked 647 Times in 534 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
We may not be able to eradicate it but we can surly cut down on its usage.
Milk in plastic bottles, what about glass?
Plastic bags what about paper?
I remember watching an episode of countryfile about milk, they said that plastic was actually better than glass. Using glass requires lots more energy to make them, glass has a high breakage rate, it also takes a lot of energy to wash and sterilise them between uses. Wagons also use more fuel transporting them because they are heavier like for like than plastic.

When you dig down into the issues it's quite a difficult problem.
__________________
Like being creative?

http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/
topman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2019, 08:18   #12
Nick Greg
Posted a thing or two
 
Honda Insight Hybrid

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Brighouse
Posts: 1,157
Thanks: 691
Thanked 424 Times in 280 Posts
Default

Complex matter. Where I work we produce tonnes of food packaging every year. Mostly cardboard based but some have small clear plastic windows in them. Retailers ask us to provide recyclable alternative, which we can but they are more expensive and they always say they can't afford it. Also it seems to me that local authorities have as many methods of recycling around as there are stars in the universe. Would it not be better to rationalise and standardise the way waste is recycled so the councils all do it the same way? The worst culprits are the luxury/best of/the best food products which are frequently encased in rigid plastics, might look nice but terribly polluting. I always though incineration is a very good idea but some don't but I am not qualified to comment on the pros and cons. All the packaging we do at work is FSC and all recyclable apart from the plastic element but until retailers understand that eliminating plastics costs money and they will have to pay that cost it will be a slow process. It can be done, think of carrier bags which you now need to pay for but the supermarkets didn't half resist that. However once one has the guts to make that step others invariably follow.
Nick Greg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2019, 08:32   #13
MSS
This is my second home
 
Rover 75CDT, Jaguar XF-S 3.0V6, V'xhall Omega V6 Estate, Twintop 1.8VVT, Astra Estate and Corsa 1.2

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7,078
Thanks: 283
Thanked 624 Times in 440 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by klarzy View Post
I am a packaging consultant...

You will NEVER get rid of plastic packaging...

You can use starch based compostables and mono materials that can be recycled more easily but less than 0.2% of waste is actually recycled in the TWO plants in the UK which can actually do it fully with polymers.

The so called compostables are only commercially compostable and this required 140F plus for several weeks.

They are not domestically compostable.

The best way to dispose of this material is to use high efficiency, low emission incineration and turn the calories in the materials in to usable electricity and reduce fossil fuel use.

Do you have any real-world data on the dioxins and heavy metal pollutants produced and ejected int the air by the incineration processes - not from brand new, recently commissioned, incinerators but those with an operational and maintenance history?

Also, I thought studies had shown that recycling and reuse actually is more efficient than incineration as a whole-lifecycle process. Is this not the case?
MSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2019, 08:35   #14
MSS
This is my second home
 
Rover 75CDT, Jaguar XF-S 3.0V6, V'xhall Omega V6 Estate, Twintop 1.8VVT, Astra Estate and Corsa 1.2

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7,078
Thanks: 283
Thanked 624 Times in 440 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simondi View Post
As said plastic is used virtually everywhere. I don't think it's possible to eradicate it.

The way I see it is that we all have to act a wee bit more responsibly. Re use containers, take our own shopping bags ( charging for plastic bags was a fantastic idea) and so on.
I do wish that manufacturers would reduce the amount of packaging though.

Very surprised that you watched the BBC documentary though I would have thought that you would be put off by its inherent lefty, green agenda bias

I agree - in my view, we all should be doing our bit to curtail the use of plastics. When shopping, we tend to look for unwrapped produce e.g. foods such as cucumbers from Morrisons....
MSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2019, 08:38   #15
Nick Greg
Posted a thing or two
 
Honda Insight Hybrid

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Brighouse
Posts: 1,157
Thanks: 691
Thanked 424 Times in 280 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post
I agree - in my view, we all should be doing our bit to curtail the use of plastics. When shopping, we tend to look for unwrapped produce e.g. foods such as cucumbers from Morrisons....
Interestingly Morrisons are one of our customers who feels the bodegradable plastic window option is too expensive!
Nick Greg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2019, 08:46   #16
Darcydog
This is my second home
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,428
Thanks: 3,123
Thanked 3,170 Times in 2,096 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
You may be best placed her to give sound advice on what can be done.
Is paper bags and glass bottles a step in the right direction?
We can and must do better.

macafee2
I will bow to Klarzy’s greater knowledge here but you have -from how I understand the issues - hit the nail on the head Ian.

Plastic is cheap and easy to produce - the issue is what we do with the excess we produce.

Paper can be made from recycled material but the original is made from wood pulp and the manufacturing process is chemical and energy intensive. It’s not a “clean” process by any means.

Anyone living downstream from an old paper mill in the past may well remember how the paper mill destroyed life in the rivers.

Glass manufacturing and recycling is also hugely energy intensive. Glass product manufacturing/recycling emits a huge amount of CO2.

And we cannot have that can we.

Despite the fact that our respiration takes in air with circa 0.04% CO2 and each breath we exhale contains about 3.8% to 5% depending upon how much exercise we are doing at the time.

So in the CO2 production stakes!! - we are ALL as guilty as he**.
Darcydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2019, 08:58   #17
macafee2
This is my second home
 
Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 14,890
Thanks: 1,630
Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topman View Post
I remember watching an episode of countryfile about milk, they said that plastic was actually better than glass. Using glass requires lots more energy to make them, glass has a high breakage rate, it also takes a lot of energy to wash and sterilise them between uses. Wagons also use more fuel transporting them because they are heavier like for like than plastic.

When you dig down into the issues it's quite a difficult problem.
ho hum back to square 1

macafee2
macafee2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2019, 09:02   #18
Heddy
This is my second home
 
None

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: None
Posts: 5,556
Thanks: 465
Thanked 1,161 Times in 924 Posts
Default

They're currently breaking up a huge fatberg under Sidmouth, I think they said it was 200ft long. The cause?......wet wipes.
Heddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2019, 09:20   #19
Darcydog
This is my second home
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,428
Thanks: 3,123
Thanked 3,170 Times in 2,096 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
ho hum back to square 1

macafee2
There are new technologies out there and newer and better technologies being developed. Old incinerator technology is not right for plastics - but the newer “containerised” incinerators captures the toxic chemicals such that they can be extracted and sold as a valuable bi-product.

There is also considerable research work on Thermolysis of waste plastic to produce a liquid fuel.

So it’s not all doom and gloom.


At least now more air is being used in packaging. My son sent me a bottle of aftershave for Fathers Day via Amazon.

A year or so ago it would have come in a box full of polystyrene “worms”. This time it came with one or two plastic “bladders” or balloons.

So the product was protected but the physical amount of plastic was a fraction of what was previously used.

I saw that as a small positive it what is clearly a bleak and serious scenario overall
Darcydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2019, 09:48   #20
Gate Keeper
This is my second home
 
4X4

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Nairobi
Posts: 20,006
Thanks: 8,286
Thanked 7,017 Times in 4,160 Posts
Default

It’s a serious criminal offence in Kenya if anyone is found carrying a plastic bag, or supplying them. Last week the President of Kenya announced “bans for single use plastic products in protected areas, beaches, parks, forests”. For a 3rd world country, it’s a step in the right direction. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.n...rsh/index.html The link contains a video of his announcement.
Gate Keeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © 2006-2023, The Rover 75 & MG ZT Owners Club Ltd