Jatco automatic gearbox - quick question

[simon8805]

Following a couple of minor slips whilst changing through the gears I have decided to go through a full ATF flush on my 51 plate CDT 2.0.

I have studied much on the forum regarding the do's and dont's.

I am a confident hands on kindof guy, so I started the process tonite.

Warmed up the car, up on jacks, engine cover off, located the required fill, level and drain plugs, no problem.

As the car is new to me I thought I would take a peek at the ATF level first, and cracked opened up the 5mm hex level plug, I expected a dribble at most.

To my surprise 2 liters of ATF flowed from the level plug!!

The car is level (or as near as damn it)

WHY would 2 liters of ATF come out through the level plug?

My instinct tells me the gearbox has been overfilled, but 2 liters!

So thats the first question.

Secondly the ATF that came out was VERY metalic looking, slightly scorched smell to it and darkbrown, I guess this is about right.

The car has done exactly 100000 miles.

There are markings on the drainplug and filler plug that would indicate that the gearbox has gone through some kind of 'process' before.

Finally there was discussions about the location of the filler plug, mine was easily visable and I put my finger on it in 5 seconds of opening the bonnet, I take it there are no other fill inlets around the gear box area, what I found was quite small probably no more than 5mm. Put definatly a plug with a number of fixed o ringtype washers embedded.

Any comments would be helpfull.

Thanks

Simon

Primary concern is the 2 liters out of the filler plug?

[rover54]

Are you sure you haven't removed the drain plug. You need to follow this how to http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/down...ile=tid011.pdf

[simon8805]

Originally Posted by rover54

Are you sure you haven't removed the drain plug. You need to follow this how to http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/down...ile=tid011.pdf

I have rechecked to make sure I havegot it right AND

I can confirm that 2 liters of ATF came out of the level plug (5mm allen key) rather than 24 mm drainage plug that I have yet to open up.

I have read that the change is around 3 to 4 liters.

Next step I guess is to see what comes out of the drain plug!

My concern remains the 2 liters from the level plug!

[Singvogel]

Beats me why 2 litres came out the level check tube - the only logical conclusion is that someone over-filled it. As it's a tube from inside the box there will always be a 50ml or so to run out - but 2 litres ?????

If it was dark coloured and smelling of 'toast' then it's definitely overdue for a change - possibly it wasn't changed at the 60K service as it should have been, and someone just chucked in a couple of litres instead.

The total ATF in the box is 8 litres but you can only get a little over half out.

I refilled with 4.6 litres to get the first dribble coming out the level tube.

Be sure to get the correct ATF.

It's Texaco N402 which is readily available at LandRover dealers as Part No. STC 50531 and is labelled ATF402 at £11.64 plus VAT a litre.

Hope that helps.

Singvogel.

[rover54]

Originally Posted by Singvogel

Beats me why 2 litres came out the level check tube - the only logical conclusion is that someone over-filled it. As it's a tube from inside the box there will always be a 50ml or so to run out - but 2 litres ?????

If it was dark coloured and smelling of 'toast' then it's definitely overdue for a change - possibly it wasn't changed at the 60K service as it should have been, and someone just chucked in a couple of litres instead.

The total ATF in the box is 8 litres but you can only get a little over half out.

I refilled with 4.6 litres to get the first dribble coming out the level tube.

Be sure to get the correct ATF.

It's Texaco N402 which is readily available at LandRover dealers as Part No. STC 50531 and is labelled ATF402 at £11.64 plus VAT a litre.

Hope that helps.

Singvogel.

JF403E, part No VYK000040, Rover 75 transmission fluid, South Lakeland Minis, £24.38 plus VAT for 5 litres.

[lovema75]

Originally Posted by rover54

JF403E, part No VYK000040, Rover 75 transmission fluid, South Lakes Minis, £24.38 plus VAT for 5 litres.

That is very cheap indeed, mine cost double that at Rimmers...

[crofts]

Originally Posted by Singvogel

Beats me why 2 litres came out the level check tube - the only logical conclusion is that someone over-filled it. As it's a tube from inside the box there will always be a 50ml or so to run out - but 2 litres ?????
If it was dark coloured and smelling of 'toast' then it's definitely overdue for a change - possibly it wasn't changed at the 60K service as it should have been, and someone just chucked in a couple of litres instead.
The total ATF in the box is 8 litres but you can only get a little over half out.
I refilled with 4.6 litres to get the first dribble coming out the level tube.
Be sure to get the correct ATF.
It's Texaco N402 which is readily available at LandRover dealers as Part No. STC 50531 and is labelled ATF402 at £11.64 plus VAT a litre.
Hope that helps.Singvogel.

Land Rover used to be similar price to Xpart but of late are much more expensive going by what other members have stated.
May find the 5 litre is much cheaper than buying in litres. Don't know why, but even petrol stations are very expensive for 1 litre compared to 5 litres of ordinary oil.
Don't know present price at Xpart, last price I heard was about £34/5 litres.
Isn't there an Xpart near you ? Rimmers often seem more expensive and transport adds to price.
That price from Mini garage sounds like older price at Xpart which used to be £24 odd/5 litres.

Originally Posted by simon8805

I have rechecked to make sure I havegot it right AND
I can confirm that 2 liters of ATF came out of the level plug (5mm allen key) rather than 24 mm drainage plug that I have yet to open up.
I have read that the change is around 3 to 4 liters.
Next step I guess is to see what comes out of the drain plug!
My concern remains the 2 liters from the level plug!

Yes. Let us know what you get out of the drain plug.
The look and smell of your fluid is not a good sign so your box, I am sure, will benefit from the change & you are probably lucky the box has not given problems.
You are probably advised to do a double change in view of the old fluid condition (you will see many members have done this on the basis you can only change some 60% each time, usually 4.5 litres, or so, per change)
May seem expensive but nothing compared to a recon box !

[rover54]

The only thing I can think of is that somehow oil is draining back from the torque converter into the gearbox and increasing the oil level, hence you can drain out anothor litre of oil, this could account for no drive as the torque converter is not full of oil. Maybe the gearbox oil pump is defective and instead of pumping oil into the torque converter when the engine is running, the torque converter is pumping the oil out of itself back to the gearbox.

If when you first filled the box no oil came out of the filler plug, then extra oil can only come from the torque converter, about 3.5 litres.

I base this on simple logic, if the box is not being filled externally, the any extra oil must be coming from some internal source, i.e the torque converter, as it is the part of the system that has that much oil.

[simon8805]

Originally Posted by rover54

The only thing I can think of is that somehow oil is draining back from the torque converter into the gearbox and increasing the oil level, hence you can drain out anothor litre of oil, this could account for no drive as the torque converter is not full of oil. Maybe the gearbox oil pump is defective and instead of pumping oil into the torque converter when the engine is running, the torque converter is pumping the oil out of itself back to the gearbox.

If when you first filled the box no oil came out of the filler plug, then extra oil can only come from the torque converter, about 3.5 litres.

I base this on simple logic, if the box is not being filled externally, the any extra oil must be coming from some internal source, i.e the torque converter, as it is the part of the system that has that much oil.

I expect to be given a list of fault codes tomorrow, then I will know what I am facing, all sounds quite life threatening for the car, if the gearbox has to come out it off to the breakers.

Originally Posted by ROVERX501

Well I am going to have a go at this job soon, I do feel for you as something seems have gone a miss possibly doing the procedure, but if you have had slipping symptoms lately perhaps it is all to do with that, A thought though, you say you have been to the car today and opened the 5mm plug again, and stopped becuase you were just draining "new Fluid", seen as the oil was brown looking you would have thought it would still have the brownish colour, new mixed with old, but if just clean drained out, something aint right there maybe.

I really hope you get it away.

Thats a good point, since the first drain with the brown ATF everything that has came out since looks red, odd indeed, tomorrow will tell all, I will let you know the outcome.

Right now I am wishing I had taken it to a local fixer.

Either way I think this fault might be terminal for the gerbox and therefore the car

Thanks for your good will, now back in my landrover (twice as many miles) and still going strong.......

[wuzerk]

Your experience of overfilling is the reason why I do not agree with owners who say " just replace the amount which comes out". In your case it would have been around 6 litres. Unless you know 100% of the history of the car it is dangerous to assume that somebody hasn't just added some fluid during its life just for luck!