Brake pipe fittings

[Blink]

Can someone tell me which fittings I need for the front pair of pipes (modulator to RH hose union & modulator to LH hose union)? I'm assuming the pipe itself is 3/16".

Also, how the hell can the RH pipe be routed past the big aircon pipes, both of which are on top of it? I can't see any way of feeding a correctly shaped brake pipe under the aircon pipes, down to the clip, up again and through the hole without mangling it completely out of shape.

This is what's left of the old RH pipe after battling to get it out!



The LH pipe.



The fitting on the modulator end.



The fitting on the hose end - the cause of all the problems. I hate these things. This one was new a few years ago!

[Blink]

Here's the hole with aircon pipes in front of it. Now spot the clip!

[Blink]

Originally Posted by Blink

... Now spot the clip!

Ah, here it is.



Idiot designer strikes again.

[clf]

Rimmer's can be your friend at times like this (for guidance at least).

I havent done this myself, but the time will come soon enough I am sure, but have read of others struggles on it (hence not done it myself lol). MarinaBrian posted somewhere some pictures of his rather tasty work. In one of them, the left if I recall, he left the pipe straight for it to exit the inner arch to the flexi. Once out through the hole, he then bent it into the correct shape. I would suggest this would be a method to consider if the shapes are awkward.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Blink

Can someone tell me which fittings I need for the front pair of pipes (modulator to RH hose union & modulator to LH hose union)? I'm assuming the pipe itself is 3/16".

Yes, it's 3/16 ins.Simon.
Here's my guide to brake pipe renewal which I hope you find helpful.

Originally Posted by Blink

I can't see any way of feeding a correctly shaped brake pipe under the aircon pipes, down to the clip, up again and through the hole without mangling it completely out of shape.

You're right; you can seldom bend the pipes to the correct shape prior to lacing into place. This job is a case of work it out as you go along!

Simon

[ADO282]

I have found it is only the last bend that need to formed on the car, the one after it passes through the grommet in the suspension turret.


Looking at the pipes you removed.........they appear to have been replaced as they are cupro-nickel, I have to ask why you were changing them??


By the way the fittings are not UNF, but 10mm metric on both ends, with a single flare on each end.

[T-Cut]

I've provided my pipe ftting experiences in your other thread here: https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d.php?t=307648


TC

[Blink]

Originally Posted by clf

Rimmer's can be your friend at times like this (for guidance at least).

I havent done this myself, but the time will come soon enough I am sure, but have read of others struggles on it (hence not done it myself lol). MarinaBrian posted somewhere some pictures of his rather tasty work. In one of them, the left if I recall, he left the pipe straight for it to exit the inner arch to the flexi. Once out through the hole, he then bent it into the correct shape. I would suggest this would be a method to consider if the shapes are awkward.

Rimmer's diagram (3 & 4 on GRID001566) is ok for a general view but it's too small to get much detail. #3 is SGB003500 (photo here) but I can't find a photo of #4 SGB114081 (part numbers confirmed by XPart).

I did see Brian's post some time ago but the pics have gone from it now so I can't see what he's describing - should have made a pdf copy! I do remember him saying he'd left the wheel arch side straight to get through the hole.

The LH is probably easy-ish but the RH is obviously much harder due to the aircon pipes and the clip being all in one spot. I might try making a template out of some 2.5mm electrical cable (one wire thereof).

Originally Posted by SD1too

Yes, it's 3/16 ins.Simon.
Here's my guide to brake pipe renewal which I hope you find helpful.

You're right; you can seldom bend the pipes to the correct shape prior to lacing into place. This job is a case of work it out as you go along!

Simon

Yes, thanks - I've read that one already but I'll go through it again.

The brake pipes were obviously pre-shaped before the factory fitted them. I'll bet the front ones went in before the aircon and engine did.

Originally Posted by ADO282

I have found it is only the last bend that need to formed on the car, the one after it passes through the grommet in the suspension turret.

Looking at the pipes you removed.........they appear to have been replaced as they are cupro-nickel, I have to ask why you were changing them??

By the way the fittings are not UNF, but 10mm metric on both ends, with a single flare on each end.

They were replaced in 2013 (by Lates). That's why I'm so pee'd off - they'd still be fine if the ends of the pesky hoses hadn't gone rusty.

So I need 3/16" pipe - I'd prefer cupro-nickel but copper would be easier for a novice piper bender like me to shape.

Then I need four 10mm x 1 fittings - I think I'll go for the stainless ones in your link on the other thread (post 4).

What's a single flare mean? Told you I was a novice pipe bender.

Originally Posted by T-Cut

I've provided my pipe ftting experiences in your other thread here: https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d.php?t=307648

TC

Ah, thanks TC - I hadn't seen your post until now. I'm not getting email notifications - they stopped coming through last week for some reason. I've got 'Instant email notification' switched on in settings but it doesn't seem to be working.

Anyway, I'll read and digest your post 5 - thanks for taking the time to go into such detail. Pics too! We likes pics.

[T-Cut]

Originally Posted by Blink

What's a single flare mean?

A single flare is one swaging operation using the flaring die. Depending on the die type, it results in either a funnel shaped end or a 'bubble' shaped end. Another different die is applied as a second step to to convert a balloon shape into a double walled funnel shape.






The single funnel flare is not used for hydraulic brake applications because the thin wall does not produce an adequate compession seal. The double flare is an old brakes standard largely superceded by the bubble styles. The bubble flare is widely used around the world and comes in two flavours.




The different shapes are created by the using different dies (SAE or DIN). You need the DIN style.
Note that each bubble flare type needs a specific type of compression nut. Note the different compression surfaces on the nuts. So, there are SAE nuts and DIN nuts. These male nuts also come in two lengths. You need two of the DIN Short type for each front brake.

If questions arise about installing your front pipes, my experience is still fresh in mind, so I'll try to help.

TC

[ADO282]

SAE (Society of Automotive Engineering) fittings tend to be UNF threadform, and DIN (Deutsches Institut fur Nomung) fitting metric.


A "bubble" flare is what I understood to be a single flare, and the double flare is a "bubble" flare which has had a second application with another die to form a cone.


The double flare is used where there is a convex cone on the mating fitting.


So the advice is to form a single flare of DIN type on each end of the pipe from the modulator to the front flexi pipes.